what can you "afford" to spend?

DWFII · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by Imperator

You're welcome to employ whatever words you want, but, as I said, I'm not sure "parvenu" is ultimately any better than "arriviste." It's a pejorative term, and also utterly gratuitous.
I don't think that is exactly what you said...but no matter. My dictionary defines a parvenu as "A person who has suddenly risen to a higher economic status but has not gained social acceptance of others in that class." How is that pejorative? I read the link that Vox posted...I commented on it. The author mentioned that he made $60k-$75k a year. Heck, I don't make a quarter of that in an average year. I'd be happy to be a parvenu...if I made as much as $60k a year, I'd deliberately change my avatar to Parvenu. As it is, all I can do is cultivate and enjoy what I regard, and think can objectively be defined, as the "finer things in life" in small portions. I can't afford to be stylish. But I admire those with the means and...what's the word..."insight?" no, "sensibility?" no...maybe "acumen." Yes, acumen. Oops!!-- accelerating assholes!! For what it's worth I don't particularly think that using "Imperator" makes you either a blowhard or an a***h***. I don't know you well enough nor have I had enough dealing with you on this forum to characterize you in any fashion...good or bad. And it is a cool word. Maybe not as cool as the word my particular friend and I laugh about--"nostril" (string it out...nosss-trrilll) but cool enough.

DWFII · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by Fuuma

"parvenu"? C'mon I use it all the time, its often an apt descriptor of the way people here behave. On the other hand I didn't even know it was an english word, can't you guys just say "new money"?

Well...it's one word to the "new money's" two. I have a hard time being brief as it is. Someone once said "if I had more time I would have written less."

Imperator · Mar 12, 2010

I obviously don't know you either. My comment wasn't intended to be a critique of your character, I just was attempting to convey my admittedly subjective reaction to the use of a word that can really only be used pejoratively (can you think of a context in which it wouldn't be a putdown of some sort?).

v0rtex · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by DWFII

[size=+1]The author mentioned that he made $60k-$75k a year. Heck, I don't make a quarter of that in an average year. I'd be happy to be a parvenu...if I made as much as $60k a year, I'd deliberately change my avatar to Parvenu.

Yeah, that bit struck me - "I'm so poor, look at me doing what I can to stretch my pennies, living on only $75k a year...".

Even in New York that's a third over the median household income (source).

The bit about his parents paying for holidays and childcare suggest that he's from a pretty well-off background where $75k might well be considered a "limited budget". Good for him, surviving on that pittance and still scraping together a few pennies to be stylish...

SkinnyGoomba · Mar 12, 2010

If you dont live in NY/NJ you have no right commenting on what it costs to live in NYC.

DWFII · Mar 12, 2010

Sure I can... a) when the dictionary definition isn't particularly pejorative

I realize people make up their own definitions for words and want to apply them to other people but if we all did that we might as well be speaking in tongues.

b) when the context isn't targeted or particularly pejorative

There's a big difference between characterizing someone individually (ad hominem) and making a generalized observation that fundamentally dismisses the characterization altogether.

Not world shaking but sensible...with nothing of the nip-cheese parvenu

Was I raising an awkward question about what I consider a certain inconsistency...cognitive dissonance, as who should say (if that term won't upset anyone)...in people's expectations? Yes, of course I was. Isn't that what discussions such as these are about? I wonder how many people see the word "Style" as a pejorative, on some level. If they didn't, perhaps they wouldn't be so defensive about issues they have no control over or so querulous (can I use that word?) about prices. The whole issue of "affordability" is more about priorities and/or self image than it is about practical reality, IMO.

makewayhomer · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

If you dont live in NY/NJ you have no right commenting on what it costs to live in NYC.
it's not like cost of living baselines are carefully guarded state secrets. I think we could all reasonably approximate the real word difference between a $75k Brooklyn salary and a $75k Madison, WI salary

DWFII · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

If you dont live in NY/NJ you have no right commenting on what it costs to live in NYC.
Opinions...like fantasies...are free. No harm no foul...as long as they are identified as such. There's a big difference between speculation, supposition, and wishful thinking, and information based on authoritative data or direct personal experience...especially when it involves many years of that experience. Too many people...on the Internet in particular...indulge themselves in the former and then bridle when someone calls them on it. I don't know what you do for a living but unless it's shoemaking, I would never be so presumptuous to assert that I know more about it than you do. In the world I live in that's not only common sense it's good manners. And no, I, personally, would never try to tell you what it's like to live in NYC, even though I have a brother who lives there...I suspect, however, that for some who post to this forum having a relative who visited New York would make them an immediate expert. Of course that's just me.

chungyiuhang · Mar 12, 2010

I spent too much money and time on education. Now should spend more on clothings

SkinnyGoomba · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by DWFII

Opinions...like fantasies...are free. No harm no foul...as long as they are identified as such.

There's a big difference between speculation, supposition, and wishful thinking, and information based on authoritative data or direct personal experience...especially when it involves many years of that experience. Too many people...on the Internet in particular...indulge themselves in the former and then bridle when someone calls them on it.

I don't know what you do for a living but unless it's shoemaking, I would never be so presumptuous to assert that I know more about it than you do.

In the world I live in that's not only common sense it's good manners.

And no, I, personally, would never try to tell you what it's like to live in NYC, even though I have a brother who lives there...I suspect, however, that for some who post to this forum having a relative who visited New York would make them an immediate expert.

Of course that's just me.

Thats exactly my point, even living on the cheap in NYC is expensive, if not impossible.

You'll never understand it until you've done it, you want to go out for a night at a good restaurant expect to spend $80 for a couple if you dont have any drinks. Rather chose a diner? Ok $50. Pay your car? $25 for a couple hours, $40 overnight. Dont have a card, then expect to shell out $6-$15 or more to be driven in a taxi. Want to go to a nightclub? Well thats $40 at the door, and $10 for a bottle of water that i pay $1.50 for at the grocery store.

Want to buy a house....no prob, just be prepared to put 10-20% down on the 800K brownstone thats in a decent area.
Cant afford it? No prob just spend $1500 on a studio, or if you want a single bedroom $2500.

75K doesnt look so great anymore does it?

Verno Inferno · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by v0rtex

There's a few sources which give rule-of-thumb figures for income allocation (ie. how much you can "afford"), usually 20-35% housing, 10-20% transportation, 10-20% food, 10%+ savings, etc. Highly recommend Dave Ramsey's books and courses if you want to learn about this sort of thing in more detail.

+1 After reading a few of those and modeling my budgeting spreadsheets off of his suggestions, I paid off an embarrassing amount of debt in a short time. And it certainly changed how I thought about the term afford.

Manton · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

Want to buy a house....no prob, just be prepared to put 10-20% down on the 800K brownstone thats in a decent area.

Yeah, in 1980.

SkinnyGoomba · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by Manton

Yeah, in 1980.

I visit NYC and philly alot, its expensive to live in this area. Head out for a night out in Princeton and you'll see the same thing $6/beer, $10/cocktail. Dinner for 2 is $60-$100. Lunch for myself is $30 if i dont have a beer.

cheyrou · Mar 12, 2010

I think i spend $225 a month on apparel, which is the vast majority of my expendable income. I dont find myself looking that great or anything though. I wonder how do men who make an average amount of money manage to look so sharp. Is it because they devote a large portion of their free money to clothes? Or are there men who really do know how to dress well for a significantly less amount of money? I know I can't.

DWFII · Mar 12, 2010

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

Thats exactly my point, even living on the cheap in NYC is expensive, if not impossible. You'll never understand it until you've done it, you want to go out for a night at a good restaurant expect to spend $80 for a couple if you dont have any drinks. Rather chose a diner? Ok $50. Pay your car? $25 for a couple hours, $40 overnight. Dont have a card, then expect to shell out $6-$15 or more to be driven in a taxi. Want to go to a nightclub? Well thats $40 at the door, and $10 for a bottle of water that i pay $1.50 for at the grocery store. Want to buy a house....no prob, just be prepared to put 10-20% down on the 800K brownstone thats in a decent area. Cant afford it? No prob just spend $1500 on a studio, or if you want a single bedroom $2500. 75K doesnt look so great anymore does it?
No, no...I understand that. But I suspect the figures are not really the issue. I'm sure they factor into the decisions about spending if one lives in NY but, in the end, it's still about priorities, isn't it? I mean what percent of a 100k income is $80.00? What percent is it if you go out to eat twice a month? [parenthetically we went out to brunch last Sunday and the cost was over $50.00 per person.] Similarly with shoes or shirts or suits. Assume bespoke is your goal...do you really need ten $1500.00 suits or 20 pair of $1k shoes? Or will three pair in as many years be enough? And enough is the operative word there. I don't know, I admit it. I am speculating....I live in Oregon, not New York...where I have spent $25.00 for a shot of McCallan 18.

what can you "afford" to spend?

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