Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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MoM, did you have a suit back then? if so, off the peg or MTM?

would you say most guys had relatively normal english cut suits, or did you see a lot of peacocks suits out at night (long 18" centre vent, multiple ticket pockets, sleeve butons going up to the elbows etc)?

I often wonder how much of what we consider to be "correct skinhead gear" is actually based on the original style, or if we're just basing it on a later (late 70s/early 80s) interpretation of what original gear was. Not that it matters to me, I think it's cool there is about 40+ years of "skinhead style" to choose from so to speak. It may not all be "authentic" but I think most of it is relevant.

Not having had a lot of ready dosh to play around with I improvised a lot, buying mainly off-the-peg where I could. On one hand I had one PoW jacket made to measure, on the other hand a non-skinhead mate of mine, having bought himself a PoW suit and finding it was a fashion item for skins, decided he didn't like it and gave it to me! I bought most of the other items (sheepskin, Harrington, Sta-Prests, etc etc) as and when I could afford them.

In London in 68/69 guys tended to have "normal English cut suits". This rather surprised me, having come down from 67/68 North of England, where late mod / hard mod styles were still somewhat fluid and competitive (within the basic 3-button suit style).

Hope that answers your question.

perhaps of interest to Londoners, J Simons has reopened near Baker St tube on 46 Chiltern (formerly was on Russell St in Covent Garden near the transportation museum)

supposedly the shop is very nice, altho I can't find any feedback on the gear he is selling, as he is now offering a house line called JSA, made by Claudio's factory (of DNA Groove fame). Sure was a lot of talk BEFORE he opened, now that he's open not a whole lot of conversation about his wares.

supposedly he has housebrand staprest and harringtons, in addition to shirts, but I'm not completely sure since no one's confirmed anything about his stock. I do know his shirts start at size Med (and a fuller cut one at that) so doesnt look like shirts will fit me, but still will be a good shop to check out if you're in the area.

They have a web site.

from the movie small faces. i wish i could find a better picture but all the dudes in this film have awesome gear.

^^ nice to see someone else who's heard of this movie. I still have a VHS copy of it, really cool flick with some nice gear. sort of a post-suedehead style.

I have a silly question that will prolly garner a lot of facepalms and such. I've read parts of this saga but wish i had more time to do so.

Mr Thick as Thieves: You're an asian dude, right? At least some variation of swedish asian america, asian america, etc. etc.

Does skin color have nothing to do with the skinhead mov't? I've talked to various dudes abotu the topic but get mized responses.

I know there are a bunch of sub cultures under the skin umbrella, like the racist ones whpo bash on minorities, and the non-racist ones who set out to bash on the racists, etc so do you associate with one of the subcultures of the subculture?

Any clarity would be most appreciated.

thx

fs

Originally Posted by FStyles

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I have a silly question that will prolly garner a lot of facepalms and such. I've read parts of this saga but wish i had more time to do so.

Mr Thick as Thieves: You're an asian dude, right? At least some variation of swedish asian america, asian america, etc. etc.

Does skin color have nothing to do with the skinhead mov't? I've talked to various dudes abotu the topic but get mized responses.

I know there are a bunch of sub cultures under the skin umbrella, like the racist ones whpo bash on minorities, and the non-racist ones who set out to bash on the racists, etc so do you associate with one of the subcultures of the subculture?

Any clarity would be most appreciated.

thx

fs

are you drunk?

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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^^ nice to see someone else who's heard of this movie. I still have a VHS copy of it, really cool flick with some nice gear. sort of a post-suedehead style.

a pretty boring movie but worth watching for a bit of insight on the culture and style. 16 years of alcohol was equally as boring but had some cool threads. i believe the actor who played malky johnson in small faces is the main character in 16 years.

Originally Posted by FStyles

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Does skin color have nothing to do with the skinhead mov't? ....so do you associate with one of the subcultures of the subculture?

no. I dont care about nor do I identify with either side. To me extreme SHARPs are just as bad as extreme WP and are 2 sides to the same coin.

There was a time up til mid 80s, that skinheads were skinheads, first and foremost. Other than regional gang alliances/disputes, everyone *could* get along. A guy wearing his Skrewdriver shirt could hang out with a guy wearing a Specials shirt, and there really wouldnt be anything out of place with that scenario. That's the way it outta be in my opinion. But I'm sure some new jack kid would say I'm a "fencewalker" which is the most bullshit term ever, and of course it was created by *us* Americans, along with other crap phrases like "freshcut" and "getting shaved into being a skinhead" etc. It's no wonder american skinhead scene is a joke in 2010, for most part.

as far as skin color, there are sussed skinheads all over from different ethnic backgrounds, even tho it WAS originally a WHITE working class scene but that "east end" attitude is something that can be found anywhere there's a working class of peoples.

Originally Posted by BarrelMaker

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a pretty boring movie but worth watching for a bit of insight on the culture and style. 16 years of alcohol was equally as boring but had some cool threads. i believe the actor who played malky johnson in small faces is the main character in 16 years.

yep, Kevin McKidd

16 years of Alcohol is probably the best movie representation of skinheads, as the director was himself a Glasgow skin and based the story around his friends. It's odd too since that movie isnt marketed as a "skinhead" movie, it just happens to revolve around a skinhead gang. And yes it's slow, but the middle part of movie when they focus on McKidd as a skinhead is great stuff and very watchable. I usually FF to that part and turn it off towards the end when he's back to being "normal"

here's some clips from 16Years of Alcohol
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Originally Posted by BarrelMaker

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are you drunk?

that wasn't even funny snark.

Nice try though. I think my question was pretty clear and coherent albeit, a bit naive and misguided.


GetSmart: thanks mate. Makes more sense now.

GS, I was gonna mention J. Simons you beat me to it. Gonna try to check this out in the next few weeks.

Re Small Faces (film). Not a bad film, gets shown every now & then on TV here. Some nice gear - Crombies, Monkey Jackets etc. I remember when it was released (mid 90's)some numpty in the NME wrote a review along the lines of 'good film but the clothes are 3 years out of date. In 1969 everybody had long hair & were hippies'(!!) Tw*t!

FStyles the original skins were predominatly white but there were also a few black (as in Afro-Caribbean) skins as well, particularly in areas of London & other cities with a large black population (see pics earlier on in this thread & there are a few black guys) though some of these may have referred to themselves as 'Rude Boys' basically it was the same style. Basically that was a reflection of the ethnic make-up of the UK at that time. The original (68-70) skins were apolitical, inasmuch as they were ordinary working-class kids though some may have reflected certain prejudiced attitudes in the areas they lived in these weren't excusive to skins (or the working-classes either particularly in the 60s/70s).

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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FStyles the original skins were predominatly white but there were also a few black (as in Afro-Caribbean) skins as well, particularly in areas of London & other cities with a large black population (see pics earlier on in this thread & there are a few black guys) though some of these may have referred to themselves as 'Rude Boys' basically it was the same style. Basically that was a reflection of the ethnic make-up of the UK at that time. The original (68-70) skins were apolitical, inasmuch as they were ordinary working-class kids though some may have reflected certain prejudiced attitudes in the areas they lived in these weren't excusive to skins (or the working-classes either particularly in the 60s/70s).

cool man. apprec the insight.

I grew up in a neighborhood (san Francisco) where my HS was made up of 85-90% chinese. Not asian, but Chinese alone. Needless to say 'Skin' culture was non-existent and something only seen in the movies, or specifically, a little film called American History X.

My viewpoints about the culture were always guided by this film and I didn't think there was much to know beyond this.

When I went to college, one of my dorm mates dressed like (what i thought was a ) typical skin head. Comign in with a one sided view, it took us awhile to get to know each other and at first it was majorly awkward. He turned out to be a majorly cool dude, and i later learn that he just enjoys the aesthetic and doesn't subscribe to any set of beliefs. He said that many of his hometown friends (san Bernardino, CA) just dressed like this and everyone pegged them as a bunch of racists while they in reality were just a bunch of dudes.

Well, on one occassion, A couple of us dorm mates went to a party that my skin buddy heard about.

It was like a bad joke: A white (skin), an asian, an Italian, a Jewish and a middle eastern guy walk into a party............

a dark room lit by red and black lights. As we walked into the first room I realized how open minded I had become as while every dude had a shaved head and were ramming their bodies into one another to blasting death metal, I was surprisingly relaxed and more interested in what was in the next room.

Well, I dont' feel like typing any more, but long story short we were greeted by a couple of very unhappy dudes who got us out of there pretty quick with a couple of warm and fuzzy threats against our colored asses and bewilderment beyond belief. One of the guys suggested dragging us by our nexks behind his truck which sounded like fun.

......Back to square 1...

Then I run into this thread and I see an asian dude as teh ambassador for skins on my clothing forum and I'm like...whaa?

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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no. I dont care about nor do I identify with either side. To me extreme SHARPs are just as bad as extreme WP and are 2 sides to the same coin. There was a time up til mid 80s, that skinheads were skinheads, first and foremost. Other than regional gang alliances/disputes, everyone *could* get along. A guy wearing his Skrewdriver shirt could hang out with a guy wearing a Specials shirt, and there really wouldnt be anything out of place with that scenario. That's the way it outta be in my opinion. But I'm sure some new jack kid would say I'm a "fencewalker" which is the most bullshit term ever, and of course it was created by *us* Americans, along with other crap phrases like "freshcut" and "getting shaved into being a skinhead" etc. It's no wonder american skinhead scene is a joke in 2010, for most part.
I agree with you 100%. I don't bother with the whole If you think they're WP then "hit them up" ****. I don't go looking for problems and I don't care much about ppl's views as long as they don't involve me. Most of the guys that promote that "hit them up" mentality are just jocks/thugs that call themselves skinheads. I've met guys that look like thugs but they say that they're Skinheads and the only claim they have to say that they're true skinheads is that only "fresh cuts" dress original 24/7 and that they[thug looking "skins"] dress down because they don't have to prove **** to ppl about being skinheads and that it's in their hearts(that's totally ridiculous seeing that if it's truly in your heart, you're going to embrace the roots). I don't go judging or oppressing ppl over this but Fact is, Your identity shows who you are and what you stand for and that's what it's all about: IDENTITY. If you look and act like a skinhead then you're a skinhead but if you look and act like a thug that says he's a skinhead then you're full of ****. They just like to give themselves that name. That's 1thing I'll never agree with: People that have the ignorant mentality to claim the name but not the heart to embrace the roots.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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yep, Kevin McKidd 16 years of Alcohol is probably the best movie representation of skinheads, as the director was himself a Glasgow skin and based the story around his friends. It's odd too since that movie isnt marketed as a "skinhead" movie, it just happens to revolve around a skinhead gang. And yes it's slow, but the middle part of movie when they focus on McKidd as a skinhead is great stuff and very watchable. I usually FF to that part and turn it off towards the end when he's back to being "normal"
I hate to disagree with you Jason, but 16 Years of Alcohol didn't sit right with me. The gang are all in their 30s, for something that's supposed to play in the early 70s it breaks off it's credibility instant. At least from my knowledge there where no skinheads in their 30s in that day as it was a youth cult. The director was 11-12ish in the early 70s, it's not entirely impossible though, but still I would say it was largely his big brother's experience. Small Faces was ok, the gang with the main character's brother in it could very well be the late mods or totters (one even with a nice blue surf jacket from that picture of the Beach boys that M-o-M posted). The rival gang with Kevin Mckidd as leader just a gang not necessarily connected to mods or skinheads, there's a book that covers glasgow gang from that era, 1967, A Glasgow Gang Observed by James Patrick: http://www.modculture.co.uk/books/review.php?id=50 There where more gangs in glasgow then only gang of mods. Bronco Bullfrog is probably still imo the most authentic albeit a bit amateurish and boring. It's still real group of kids from the east end, that didn't dress up. It might not represent all skinheads form the late 60s, but that's nigh impossible as every region was different, not only northern part like in Dundee where they wore Stevie Ellis Jumpers http://retrodundee.blogspot.com/2010...is-jumper.html (influenced the Cotà Cardigans of the sharpies?) but also in London itself like the Hendon Mob who where the only ones at that time to completely shave of their hair and unlike the skinhead revival even their eyebrows.

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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FStyles the original skins were predominatly white but there were also a few black (as in Afro-Caribbean) skins as well, particularly in areas of London & other cities with a large black population (see pics earlier on in this thread & there are a few black guys) though some of these may have referred to themselves as 'Rude Boys' basically it was the same style.
The west Indians did have some sort of their own thing going on, like that extreme half mast they seem to favor, most of the younger kids would crop their trousers very high like in this picture (just compare it to their non-west indians friends): (click picture to enlarge) I don't know if that's an west indian thing generally? Seems they also do it in the US at that time (1968):
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TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. Most west indians would more be like this, without boots & braces: You cannot generalise but these seem to be more exception then the rule: (The one on the left claims to be shot in 1970 on some general image website, but not sure it's not the first time they where wrong on the dates, not impossible either.. but something about that beret is bugging me, might be a mod leftover, kenny jones used to ride a scooter with a beret ) But there sure was a lot of mixing between the west indians and the skinheads. But not only the West Indians where mixing, you also had the Cypriotes, Greeks & the Italians. What a original skinhead told me:

Had some Black Mates who wore there hair cropped short(with side partings)smart Suits etc. but never Boots and Braces.The Jamaican style was to wear their Trousers very short-so they could stand out as "Rude Boys".Bearing in mind these were the younger ones.Older youths always dressed Smart.There was mixing of Greeks and Italians,again one of my mates was Italian.But they had their own styles(mainly towards Mod).In Soho the Italians,Maltese and Greek Cypriots were vying for power in Strip Clubs etc., it was not just the Krays

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