Wardrobe for BigLaw?

Hi, first post. I've been lurking for a month here and I have a few questions. I'm a 2L/3L, starting a summer internship at one of the most prestigious (and conservative) law firms in NYC, and I'm really hoping to get an offer, so I want too make a good impression with my clothes. So far, I've been told I should dress "professional" and from what I've seen at the office, that means suit and tie. I have a bit of $$$ saved up, but only one suit that I bought before starting law school for interviewing purposes (Brooks Brothers, charcoal), so I'm about to spend all of it on a "professional" wardrobe. I have a few questions, and I've already heard a few things from various people, but I figure you guys would know best:

1. Is it alright to wear the same suit twice in one week as an intern? (or am I really going to need at least 5 suits already.)

2. Do I need to wear a watch? I don't have one right now, and the good ones are expensive. Is a 200$ timepiece better than nothing in such an environment, or am I better off sticking to just not wearing one.

3. What price tag am I looking at for a suit that suits my purposes? I don't want this $$$ to go to waste when I start working for real as a lawyer... so what's the cheapest suit that won't raise eyebrows for a young lawyer to wear to BigLaw? (My first suit was 1k).

4. What brands should I be looking at? My first suit was Brooks Brothers (one of their "younger" designs) because I figured you couldn't go wrong with the name, but it still looks a bit... mature on me. I'm 23 yrs old, 5'10, 160lbs, slim build, 38 chest, 33 waist, 32 inseam. Any suggestions of which brands would look good on me? Looking for something that'll look better on someone in their 20s than on someone in their 40s.

Thanks in advance,
Jake

Originally Posted by Jake101

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1. Is it alright to wear the same suit twice in one week as an intern? (or am I really going to need at least 5 suits already.)

2. Do I need to wear a watch? I don't have one right now, and the good ones are expensive. Is a 200$ timepiece better than nothing in such an environment, or am I better off sticking to just not wearing one.

3. What price tag am I looking at for a suit that suits my purposes? I don't want this $$$ to go to waste when I start working for real as a lawyer... so what's the cheapest suit that won't raise eyebrows for a young lawyer to wear to BigLaw? (My first suit was 1k).

4. What brands should I be looking at? My first suit was Brooks Brothers (one of their "younger" designs) because I figured you couldn't go wrong with the name, but it still looks a bit... mature on me. I'm 23 yrs old, 5'10, 160lbs, slim build, 38 chest, 33 waist, 32 inseam. Any suggestions of which brands would look good on me? Looking for something that'll look better on someone in their 20s than on someone in their 40s.

Thanks in advance,
Jake

1) Yes, but the suits have to be noticable different.

2) I wear no watch. I am working with a computer and having two cellular phones.

3) IMO 500 - 700$ will make good MTM suits

4) IMO no brands, make MTM suits

5) What about shoes, shirts and ties?

Originally Posted by Jake101

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Hi, first post. I've been lurking for a month here and I have a few questions. I'm a 2L/3L, starting a summer internship at one of the most prestigious (and conservative) law firms in NYC, and I'm really hoping to get an offer, so I want too make a good impression with my clothes. So far, I've been told I should dress "professional" and from what I've seen at the office, that means suit and tie. I have a bit of $$$ saved up, but only one suit that I bought before starting law school for interviewing purposes (Brooks Brothers, charcoal), so I'm about to spend all of it on a "professional" wardrobe. I have a few questions, and I've already heard a few things from various people, but I figure you guys would know best:

1. Is it alright to wear the same suit twice in one week as an intern? (or am I really going to need at least 5 suits already.)

2. Do I need to wear a watch? I don't have one right now, and the good ones are expensive. Is a 200$ timepiece better than nothing in such an environment, or am I better off sticking to just not wearing one.

3. What price tag am I looking at for a suit that suits my purposes? I don't want this $$$ to go to waste when I start working for real as a lawyer... so what's the cheapest suit that won't raise eyebrows for a young lawyer to wear to BigLaw? (My first suit was 1k).

4. What brands should I be looking at? My first suit was Brooks Brothers (one of their "younger" designs) because I figured you couldn't go wrong with the name, but it still looks a bit... mature on me. I'm 23 yrs old, 5'10, 160lbs, slim build, 38 chest, 33 waist, 32 inseam. Any suggestions of which brands would look good on me? Looking for something that'll look better on someone in their 20s than on someone in their 40s.

Thanks in advance,
Jake

I'm an attorney at a biglaw firm. I would be careful about spending too much before you see whether the men really wear suits and ties every day. This is not the case at most large law firms nowadays, unless the attorneys are going to court or meeting with a client. That said, Brooks' 1818 collection of suits is a bit more slim/youthful and is not so expensive. I wouldn't spend more than $500 on a suit at this point.

Ok, first off, congrats. If you landed a summer stint at S & C, Cravath, Wachtell --firms of that tier-- well done. If not, still, well done, for you got a summer job in the midst of a recession. And that was a serious statement--just ask one of your amigos down the path at the B-school who got an offer last fall from Bear Stearns.
Which means that you have to work harder to get that offer at the end of the summer. A year ago, I would have given you different advice. When I worked at Cravath at the peak of the boom of the Eighties, anything short of barfing on the managing partners shoes would have notched that offer of a full time gig after graduation. But that won't hold up this year. So work hard and dress conservatively. Manton has a thread on conservative business dress that shall guide you well. Bro Bro suits are fine. So is J Press. Single Breasted, Single vent. Try to have 5 in your rotation, of the highest quality you can afford. Simple Black shoes. Ignore the dandies-including myself--on this account. Three pair shall get you through. White and light blue shirts, no fancy stripes or busy patterns--and no contrasting collars or Gordon Gecko flourishes--leave that to the partners and senior associates who are future partners or who are out the door. Conservative ties. Watch the perspiration factor in the midtown/Wall Street summer heat. Keep your nose to the grindstone and don't hit on the secretaries.

First of all, I hate / envy / hope to soon be you. Secondly, as mentioned earlier, please don't overlook shoes while you're looking at suits. I myself am in search of a black cap toe bal that will be suitable for interviews, moots, court, and etc. and is sleeker than the park ave, so I'll benefit from this thread too. On the advice of several lawyers, a brown cap toe is also a desirable staple, for which purpose I bought moras. AEs can easily be had on ebay or elsewhere at a fair discount, but if you want to step up from that, it may cost you a fair bit to get that three-shoe rotation going.

Thanks for all the quick responses! (And yes, I know I still have a long road ahead of me ::fingers crossed: . ~500$, I can do, so that's a relief. I think I'll go with the M2M. Never done that before, but that seems to be the majority advice on this one.

I think I'll be fine on the ties (I have way too many, and a fair amount of high quality conservative looking ones), have 2 high quality formal shirts (one plain white, one stripe patterned, but still white)... planning on getting 4 more of varying shade/patterns in the grey zone and brown zone. I was just planning on getting ones with straight point collars and normal button cuffs. Anything special I need to look for?

Any reason I need 3 dress shoes? I had one (black oxford), bought a brown captoe oxford last month (they were each ~150$)... do I need a third one? (what type?).

Again, thanks for the pointers.

Originally Posted by Gipper40

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Simple Black shoes. Ignore the dandies-including myself--on this account. Three pair shall get you through.

Would a pair of Edward Green cap toes in Burgundy be too flashy by Biglaw standards?

& don't you essentially just need to pay attention to what the associates & partners wear at the firm?

Hi Jake, Well done on securing an internship at a major law firm. I am soon to begin my own internship at the UK-equivalent of a Biglaw firm (a 'Magic Circle' firm). I have five suits: Solid navy Dark charcoal Brown Navy pinstripe Very pale gray suit (we'll see how 'summery' the dress code gets when the temperatures rise). In terms of shirts, my wardrobe is rather over-populated with white shirts. I also have a few solid blues, various types of blue/black stripes, one solid pink and one red gingham (perhaps not appropriate). My ties are a mix of solids and stripes, I detest both floral and paisley ties in a working environment (that's my opinion, and is not necessarily true of the people you'll be working with during your internship). In terms of shoes, I have four pairs. Two black, one dark brown, one chestnut-brown, all of which are formal, simple, lace-ups, nothing particularly flashy. I would advise you, however, to make sure you acquaint yourselves with your firm's clients and areas of expertise, in addition to being on top of the law, rather than place too much emphasis on your clothing, however important it may be In any case, I hope you do very well.

Originally Posted by Gipper40

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Ok, first off, congrats. If you landed a summer stint at S & C, Cravath, Wachtell --firms of that tier-- well done. If not, still, well done, for you got a summer job in the midst of a recession. And that was a serious statement--just ask one of your amigos down the path at the B-school who got an offer last fall from Bear Stearns. Which means that you have to work harder to get that offer at the end of the summer. A year ago, I would have given you different advice. When I worked at Cravath at the peak of the boom of the Eighties, anything short of barfing on the managing partners shoes would have notched that offer of a full time gig after graduation. But that won't hold up this year. So work hard and dress conservatively. Manton has a thread on conservative business dress that shall guide you well. Bro Bro suits are fine. So is J Press. Single Breasted, Single vent. Try to have 5 in your rotation, of the highest quality you can afford. Simple Black shoes. Ignore the dandies-including myself--on this account. Three pair shall get you through. White and light blue shirts, no fancy stripes or busy patterns--and no contrasting collars or Gordon Gecko flourishes--leave that to the partners and senior associates who are future partners or who are out the door. Conservative ties. Watch the perspiration factor in the midtown/Wall Street summer heat. Keep your nose to the grindstone and don't hit on the secretaries.
Great advice, and I can't stress this enough... quality, polished shoes are extremely important! Also, as guys we overlook this, manicures in that environment help. I would point out that MTM isn't that important yet, he is an intern. Invest in quality pieces that will last though. J. Press (runs slimmer than BB, they're having their big sale now), Brooks Brothers, Hickey Freeman (sale at Nordstroms June 13th, about half off these), Burberry (on sale now at Bloomingdales), and others of the conservative arena. Navy, Grey, Charcoal, solids, glen plaids (Navy base), chalk stripe, pinstripe (narrow rather than wide if you want something more youthful). Lighter colors don't work for me, maybe they do for you, but I'd just stick to the main basics of Navy/Dark Grey/ Charcoal. Once the basics are covered then consider browns, tans, etc... Don't worry about the "older" fit, you can get these tailored... and the way you might be working at first, a little slack helps until you can get into a routine. Also, a slightly looser suit helps in the summer; a tight suit won't let you cool off easily. Consider that when you buy your shirts too. Regimental and patterned ties are the way to go. Almost everything at J. Press is safe to give you an idea, but don't be afraid to buy used ties or from the SF board. Don't get crazy with bold paisleys until you know you can get away with it. If you don't have a deep suit rotation and your shirts are pretty plain, this is how you can differentiate and change things up. Wear the same tie in the same week, then it looks like you're wearing the same thing. Also, girls notice your ties, making it another good way to get noticed with them.

Before convincing yourself that you need five suits, 18 dress shirts, 197 ties, etc., I'd double check with your firm about the dress code. Then, I'd do some searches here on Styleforum about summer associate / law firm attire. Basically, just about every one of the vault 100 firms has gone business casual at this point. There might be one holdout. As I understand it, even Cravath has gone business casual.

So one suit will likely be sufficient for the summer.

And no one is going to care whether you wear a watch or not. If you want to, go for it.

Did you say you're doing an 'internship'? If you're a summer intern and not a summer associate, I'd be extra careful about overdressing. If you dress more formally than the summer associates, you risk being unpopular amongst them. Even though some senior partners may smile on you for dressing up, many more may question your sociability for it.

+1 on this. There are only a couple biglaw shops are not business casual.

You should have been sent something on the dress code by this point. If you shop is business casual you will likely only need to wear a suit a handful of times while summering.

Originally Posted by Jake101

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Any reason I need 3 dress shoes? I had one (black oxford), bought a brown captoe oxford last month (they were each ~150$)... do I need a third one? (what type?).
You're probably ok with two. You just need to rest good shoes at least a day in between wearings, so having a few to rotate means they last considerably longer. Not to mention variety is the spice of life, and all that. If the shoes you have fall apart quickly, you should be able to replace them for not much more than that per pair in the B&S here and get something that will last you a good ten years.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Did you say you're doing an 'internship'? If you're a summer intern and not a summer associate, I'd be extra careful about overdressing. If you dress more formally than the summer associates, you risk being unpopular amongst them. Even though some senior partners may smile on you for dressing up, many more may question your sociability for it.

Yeah, the use of the word "internship" suggests that you're not a "summer." Summers need to be very careful about overdoing it--interns even more so.

Every law firm I can think of in NYC is business casual at this point (but I don't work in NYC). Those that aren't are not going to expect a law student to max out his credit cards to charge five good suits. First, call the H.R. person who sent you the hiring letter and ask what the dress code is. If business casual, buy a couple of pairs of wool pants from J. Crew or Brooks and some shirts from same. Keep the Brooks suit to the side for mock trials and the like. Done.

If it's really suit and tie, have three suits. 5 shirts, all white and blue--less room for you to overdo it and look like a tool. Shoes can be anything black--Johnston & Murphy lace-ups are fine. No pocket square. Anything but that. If, halfway though the summer, you feel underdressed and that a better wardrobe will get you some opportunities (and I bet you won't), then you can add some flair.

Your job is to demonstrate that you're a hard worker, not a smooth dresser. Overdoing it will get you little credit and will likely elicit scorn from the junior partners and Albany Law School warriors who will think you're affected. There are some places that might be exceptions to that general advice above, but I don't know of them, and they aren't the major midtown shops. Lawyers generally dress terribly, so don't worry about underdoing it--there's a far greater risk of overdoing it and looking, no offense to all here, like a dandy, rather than a trustable, head-down kind of guy.