Vegan suiting options?

A good friend is picking up on my sartorial improvements and coming around to the idea of his first real suit. However, he's a vegan who's beliefs include no animal by products. That excludes the most common materials: wool, cashmere, mohair, vicuna ( ).

Of course I'm ruling synthetics out for him (or at least, no more than as a component - say 20% - of some broader mix). That leaves the cotton and linen (flax/hemp/etc) and he'll probably be OK with silk too. What other options are there and/or, given the rise of the veganism niche, are there retailers/manufacturers that specialize in sartorial caliber clothing/materials for it?

If nothing else, I thought it was an interesting legitimate question. And, yes, he's already well prepared to defend his veganism, so please leave the snark/challenges at the thread's door.

Silk kills the silkworms. It would be ridiculous to be okay with silk, which requires animals to die, and not be okay with wool. Sheep overheat and die in the summer if they haven't been sheared. We've had a symbiotic relationship for a long time- us getting wool is necessary for the sheep's survival. Hard to get more animal friendly than that.

If he insists on plant fibers, cotton or linen. Neither would really be entirely appropriate in a highly formal situation.

This maybe?

http://patrickjohnsontailors.tumblr.com/post/77203614205/

Make sure to avoid the horsehair canvas.



cptjeff said:

Silk kills the silkworms. It would be ridiculous to be okay with silk, which requires animals to die, and not be okay with wool.

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Neither I nor he knew this; if so then yes, it would removie it as an option.

cptjeff said:

Sheep overheat and die in the summer if they haven't been sheared. We've had a symbiotic relationship for a long time- us getting wool is necessary for the sheep's survival. Hard to get more animal friendly than that.

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But doesn't that mean that we've intentionally bred sheep for that purpose, otherwise they would have died off for that reason? I'm not trying to argue (I'm not a vegan), but that's his perspective as to why it's not tenable.

cptjeff said:

If he insists on plant fibers, cotton or linen. Neither would really be entirely appropriate in a highly formal situation.

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Funny, I hadn't thought that - essentially - if animal products are ruled out and man-made are undesirable, plant is the only thing left (duh: Vegan!)

I was just wondering if I was overlooking anything else, it doesn't sound like it.



Blackhood said:

Make sure to avoid the horsehair canvas.

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Noted!

What arrant nonsense - it is to be hoped that the field in which the cotton grows is not treated with animal manure as a fertiliser.....



GBR said:

What arrant nonsense - it is to be hoped that the field in which the cotton grows is not treated with animal manure as a fertiliser.....

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Please just shut up for once with your completely unhelpful comments. Your opinion of the person's beliefs does not matter, let's just try to help him within the limits he has set for himself.



Blackhood said:

Make sure to avoid the horsehair canvas.

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I could be wrong, but I don't think that the canvassing material in suit jackets is made from horsehair (or at least, not nowadays). I think that it's usually made from wool and perhaps mohair.

Of course, that's still an issue for the OP's vegan friend. He could look at having an unstructured jacket without canvassing in the chest. I've got such a cotton jacket and as cotton is both stiffer than the usual wool suiting fabrics, and less formal, the jacket doesn't need to be canvassed.



GBR said:

What arrant nonsense - it is to be hoped that the field in which the cotton grows is not treated with animal manure as a fertiliser.....

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I'm compelled to say that if you knew him, arrogance isn't a word you would use; he's about as humble as one can be. He's only interested in, to the extent that he can, not to "take advantage" of other creatures. He'd freely admit that, taken to an extreme, he should just curl up in a ball and die. Instead, he's picked the best line in the sand that he can with and is trying to live inside of it, that's all. Sure from our (mine included; omnivore here!) perspective it's extreme, but so what? He's not interested in pushing an agenda, he's just trying to make the best of it that he can.

That said, you point out an interesting angle that I haven't heard him consider; noted!



Sartorial Scum said:

This maybe?

http://patrickjohnsontailors.tumblr.com/post/77203614205/

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To heck with the vegan question, I'm an omnivore and I dig that jacket

But, sure, items made from hemp like that are definitely options. That's a nice one for casual wear.



Journeyman said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the canvassing material in suit jackets is made from horsehair (or at least, not nowadays). I think that it's usually made from wool and perhaps mohair.

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I think I recall other threads that said that while horsehair is still used (and, I think, preferred?) it's the exception now.

Journeyman said:

Of course, that's still an issue for the OP's vegan friend. He could look at having an unstructured jacket without canvassing in the chest. I've got such a cotton jacket and as cotton is both stiffer than the usual wool suiting fabrics, and less formal, the jacket doesn't need to be canvassed.

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I'm really wondering if someone has come up with some real, super high end cotton for just this reason. I've got a Avon Celli summer shirt, for example, that has a hand almost as smooth as silk. I bet Loro Piana and maybe Zegna probably have something like that for suiting. Hmmm.....



razl said:

I'm compelled to say that if you knew him, arrogance isn't a word you would use; he's about as humble as one can be. He's only interested in, to the extent that he can, not to "take advantage" of other creatures. He'd freely admit that, taken to an extreme, he should just curl up in a ball and die. Instead, he's picked the best line in the sand that he can with and is trying to live inside of it, that's all. Sure from our (mine included; omnivore here!) perspective it's extreme, but so what? He's not interested in pushing an agenda, he's just trying to make the best of it that he can.

That said, you point out an interesting angle that I haven't heard him consider; noted!

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Razl - this is a nice response. Very easy to say "shut up" or respond with another insult, but much classier and more effective to do as you did. And it helps raise the level of discourse. If your friend is price insensitive and doesn't live in the United States, tell him to check out loro piana's lotus flower. It is amazing and, like the name would suggest, made from a flower. Really incredible stuff that I had the privilege to handle at huntsman.

Razl, I have a Bastittoni SC made out of bamboo.



FlyingMonkey said:

Please just shut up for once with your completely unhelpful comments. Your opinion of the person's beliefs does not matter, let's just try to help him within the limits he has set for himself.

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Beliefs are not immune from criticism just because they're beliefs. If I said that it was my belief that lizard people controlled the US Government and created a secret cabal of celebrities who rule the world? You'd say my belief is moronic, right? What if I said that it was my sincere belief that black people are inferior to white people? You'd probably say that my belief was not only ignorant, but that it was dangerous to our society.

IMO, veganism is really pretty moronic, and I could give you a pretty long discussion on the subject, but it's also pretty harmless, so it's not something I really care about or get worked up over. But I do care about the idea that beliefs aren't open public discussion and debate.