The Look goes on...



cerneabbas said:

Has anyone on here bought anything from Orvis ? I have seen a Harrington that looks good in the pictures and some polos and long sleeve polos,just wondering what anyones experience with them might have been.

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They're an Americanfishing/hunting/outdoors company-- so typically very generous sizing and not as "refined" as, for instance, Barbour. Good, hardwearing togs though.

Also, check out C.C. Filson. Their sizing is more versatile.



AngryYoungPoor said:

That is one hell of a coat !

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Thanks, boss. I'm quite happy with it; it's something different and has an extra touch of class with the PoW check.

I'm in the same boat as you with being an old/ex- skinhead and maintaining some semblance of style and class, sans the pinoccio boots and McDonald's employee-looking checked shirts. This thread and the "mod to suedehead" thread are great, if lengthy reads and have a great deal of relevance to the looks that I(and I assume you)personally maintain.



AngryYoungPoor said:

Long time lurker... This is a great thread! I'm an "ex" skin (it never really goes away does it haha?) from the U.S., and as I get older, I try to maintain the "look" without looking like a 15 year old boy. I find that mixing ivy with some of the staples is working very well for me. Anyway, carry on gentleman.

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Well I think I am running out of steam a bit, refreshed the wardrobe so good for the next decade! Can tell you where I see myself in ten years time in terms of outfits:

* Black Tie white bow

* Black jacket modernised morning dress

* Navy suit mauve/pink pinstripe

* Navy blazer PoW trousers/light chinos

* Harrington pullovers polos 501s

Double cuffs worn as barrel cuffs, top shirt button undone under tie, nod to Casual with pink/mauve polos, whole attitude is Mod, still a Skinhead inside, no accessories, even less stuff than now.

Quote:
Interesting, cov How do you wear a double cuff as a barrel?

Wrongly! - overlapping the cuffs instead of splaying them out as normal, catch less on a desk, etc so functional. Can also fanny about doing them up normally but only through three holes for some evening 'cocktail cuff' action.

(think my first hired Black Tie outfit came with single cuffs and I was shown on the night to overlap them)

AngryYoungPoor said:

I've been reading the mod to suedehead thread since 2010.. It's really, really good. I just never contributed because between "Get Smart" and yourself the "35-45 year old American skinhead who got into it through punk" thing was officially covered haha. I just thought that my experience was so parallel to the two of you that I couldn't really add a fresh perspective.
This thread, however, is exactly what I'm going through in life so I think I can add a little more over here haha.
Anyway, back on topic...
How do you fellas feel about the 3/2 roll sack jackets? That's one part of "the Ivy look" that I am having a hard time with. Coming from the skinhead look, I just do not like the shapelessness of those jackets. I've tried a few, but I feel, well, tubular in them hahaha.

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Welcome AYP!

I agree entirely about the sack jackets. They were one (short-lived) skinhead item I could not really embrace. They made something of a comeback here in the 80s when there was a return, in London at least, to something approximating the look I was favouring around the summer of 1970 - Bleeding Madras sack jacket, BD, chinos/Sta Prest and penny loafers. Again it did not hang around long here although John Simons of course continue to promote that look.

There has been a debate on this thread and on the Mod to Suedehead one about whether J Simons or the current Milanese / Pitti look is the true successor to 'the Look' in the 21st Century. I am tending more and more towards elements of the latter (but still visit the great man whenever I am in that part of London).



AngryYoungPoor said:

How do you fellas feel about the 3/2 roll sack jackets? That's one part of "the Ivy look" that I am having a hard time with. Coming from the skinhead look, I just do not like the shapelessness of those jackets. I've tried a few, but I feel, well, tubular in them hahaha.

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Ha ha...but three button modsuits are the very definition of tubular!

I don't really see an Ivy connection in general*, just a few particular items which had by my time lost any Ivy significance they may (or may not) have had. The sack jacket was not one of those items but I can see how it might have significance for an American in developing their particular look. The nearest I get are a couple of my old suit jackets from around 2000 in a 3 roll 2.5 with a little waist suppression that work quite well on their own due to their fairly straight silhouette. They just don't seem to miss their trousers like an English silhouette jacket with a more suppressed waist and squarer shoulders.

* you can already see the essence of the look in old UK adverts of blokes in their Daks trousers, pullovers and tennis shirts like this one from 1963 http://retrodundee.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/draffens-daks-ad-1963.html?m=1

Botolph said:

They're an Americanfishing/hunting/outdoors company-- so typically very generous sizing and not as "refined" as, for instance, Barbour. Good, hardwearing togs though.

Also, check out C.C. Filson. Their sizing is more versatile.

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Thanks for that,Orvis have certainly got an odd ( but interesting ) mix of clothes including leather jackets and suede harringtons.

I decided to go for a navy Harrington.......almost inevitably out of stock in large...

AngryYoungPoor said:

I've been reading the mod to suedehead thread since 2010.. It's really, really good. I just never contributed because between "Get Smart" and yourself the "35-45 year old American skinhead who got into it through punk" thing was officially covered haha. I just thought that my experience was so parallel to the two of you that I couldn't really add a fresh perspective.
This thread, however, is exactly what I'm going through in life so I think I can add a little more over here haha.
Anyway, back on topic...
How do you fellas feel about the 3/2 roll sack jackets? That's one part of "the Ivy look" that I am having a hard time with. Coming from the skinhead look, I just do not like the shapelessness of those jackets. I've tried a few, but I feel, well, tubular in them hahaha.

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Welcome AYP,its interesting for me to read what people from different places who shared the same 'Look' wear now.

I have always thought that 60s/70s American tv and films were a huge influence on 'the Look' here, I am not sure if it was Ivy or a lot of more mainstream stuff ?,American people that I saw on tv then seemed to dress sharper and wear lighter colours than most of the people that I saw here.

About the sack jackets,I have been thinking about buying a sports coat,and I read an interesting article on The Art of Manliness site showing the differences between a suit jacket a blazer and a sports coat,I wear a blazer and trousers occasionally but I wanted something for day / casual wear,the sack jacket didn't really seem to go with any of my other clothes,not really the look that I wanted,some of the other jackets looked a bit too country gent.

To be honest I am probably happiest wearing a Harrington with jeans or a pair of trousers and shoes these days.

Mr Knightley said:

Welcome AYP!

I agree entirely about the sack jackets. They were one (short-lived) skinhead item I could not really embrace. They made something of a comeback here in the 80s when there was a return, in London at least, to something approximating the look I was favouring around the summer of 1970 - Bleeding Madras sack jacket, BD, chinos/Sta Prest and penny loafers. Again it did not hang around long here although John Simons of course continue to promote that look.

There has been a debate on this thread and on the Mod to Suedehead one about whether J Simons or the current Milanese / Pitti look is the true successor to 'the Look' in the 21st Century. I am tending more and more towards elements of the latter (but still visit the great man whenever I am in that part of London).

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I have been thinking a lot about what 'the Look ' is now after Kingstonian mentioned V.Meldrew wearing some decent kit.

Maybe this is ridiculous but perhaps the acid test for me is to think 'if there was a second coming of Steve Mcqueen in 2015,as a man in his 50s,would he wear that ?' if the item in question is a BS harrymac then the answer is no, but what would he wear ?.

I like some of the Milanese look but like covskin I prefer a bit of a simpler look with no (or few ) accessories,I also like some of J Simons clothes I noticed a JS zipper jacket that looked a nice alternative to a Harrington,I suppose J.Simons is nearer to 'the Look' for me.

AngryYoungPoor said:

I'm with you on the Steve McQueen thing! He is my (and I'm sure many others) sartorial benchmark.
I've always been a fan of juxtaposition in style. For instance, I am very heavily tattooed, but I like to go above and beyond with my outfits to kind of tone down my tattoos.
If I'm wearing a Fred Perry polo, chinos and trainers I look like a criminal and no one sits next to me on the train haha.
If I have a navy blazer, chinos, weejuns and a nice button down, old ladies sit next to me and tell me how nice I look hahaha!
I'm definitely at a point in my life where I absolutely do not want to portray a "hooligan" image, but I still consider "the look" important. This thread has been great for me because I don't see many fellas who are similar in age and experience in San Francisco who are moving towards the toned down "look". If anything I've seen a disturbing trend in this city of grown men going through some kind of mid life crisis an BECOMING "skinheads" at the ripe age of 35-45 hahaha!
It's truly revolting...

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I can relate too a lot of this as I have quite a lot of tattoos,in my case nothing below the elbows or neck / face / head..so wearing a short sleeve shirt and trousers nothing shows.

The reactions of people who have known me for years but have never seen my tattoos can be hilarious when they do see them,some people become negative,but on occasion women who haven't taken any interest before suddenly become friendly,usually non tattooed women, I never follow this interest up as I find that a bit strange.

I agree about not wanting or needing to dress like a hooligan,in fact I don't dress to attract attention ( I tend to dress for my own 'gratification' if that's the right expression ).

I also see these types who seem to have become skinheads / hooligans / bikers in middle age and I give them a wide berth the same as the 'still a skinhead at 55 mob' or the re-enactment lads, one of the oddest things for me is the guys with both arms completely sleeved and no other tattoos,usually with a large gold earing and a large dog on a chain..LOOK AT ME,please look at me !

People ( myself included as you have just seen ) are quite judgemental about appearances,I am sure this goes back to ancient times where you had to look at someone and make a quick decision if they were safe or dangerous,fight or flee...the Look for me should be a bit understated,innocuos,even boring to someone who sees me,toned down as you say.

As I have said before one of the great things about wanting 'the Look' now is that because there is no definitive style as in the skinhead period for instance,we can be more creative and experiment,I would be the first to admit that I have got it wrong many times,this is one reason why this thread is so interesting to me,to see what other peoples ideas are.

It is very difficult to buy quality these days. If I could shop down the High Street I would be happier, but I cannot. I have to seek stuff out. Whereas as decades ago it mostly was all there for you.

I saw several coats that looked really good but were obviously decades old on pensioners who had them forever presumably.


The association of clothes with individuals is a difficult one. It seems a pity to avoid decent stuff that is not particularly flash just to avoid wisecracks. If it was costume then that is different. Yet you could probably walk into a pub in cargo shorts in winter and nobody would say anything. Funny old world.
.

AngryYoungPoor said:

I'm with you on the Steve McQueen thing! He is my (and I'm sure many others) sartorial benchmark.
I've always been a fan of juxtaposition in style. For instance, I am very heavily tattooed, but I like to go above and beyond with my outfits to kind of tone down my tattoos.
If I'm wearing a Fred Perry polo, chinos and trainers I look like a criminal and no one sits next to me on the train haha.
If I have a navy blazer, chinos, weejuns and a nice button down, old ladies sit next to me and tell me how nice I look hahaha!
I'm definitely at a point in my life where I absolutely do not want to portray a "hooligan" image, but I still consider "the look" important. This thread has been great for me because I don't see many fellas who are similar in age and experience in San Francisco who are moving towards the toned down "look". If anything I've seen a disturbing trend in this city of grown men going through some kind of mid life crisis an BECOMING "skinheads" at the ripe age of 35-45 hahaha!
It's truly revolting...

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I'm pretty much in your boat, AYP. I don't want to look like some hooligan or tough guy like I might have even into my early 30s... My arms are pretty well-covered in tattoos and even with a long sleeve shirt my wrists show, as of course do my knuckle tattoos. The way I dress and the way I present myself are certainly at odds(to the surprised observer) with my tattoos. My wife's family are somewhat well-to-do Washington folk and they find me at least a curiosity as I'm an uneducated, guy who comes from a meager working class family, having grown up in a mill town in Central Massachusetts. They find me amusing I guess.
Weather depending, I go for the Baracuda/mac, jeans/chinos, buttondown shirt or polo(Fred Perry, John Smedley, whatever), and brogues/loafers look. Nice and neat. Even though this seems like an obvious look in England to our forum-mates, you and I in America have the advantage of "the Look" not being as mainstream or well-known, and we wouldn't be looked upon as "skinhead" or "mod" or whatever by 99% of the gen pop. People think you're a well-dressed guy, and that's about it.
Now as far as the "mid-life crisis skins" in your neck of the woods, I know pretty much what and whom you're talking about and it's embarrassing from three-thousand miles away, never mind in your own city. Like my wife, a former(and might I add elegantly-dressed) skinhead girl said, the skinhead thing was a "youth subculture". One would hope that having the hindsight of a 21-year old(never mind a 40+ year-old!!!!) would steer one clear of any sort of subculture-related look, as that ship should have sailed by adulthood. Alas, this internet is a double-edged sword and with the click of a mouse people can "rediscover" their youth, whether real or imagined. Sad, really.

cerneabbas said:

I can relate too a lot of this as I have quite a lot of tattoos,in my case nothing below the elbows or neck / face / head..so wearing a short sleeve shirt and trousers nothing shows.

The reactions of people who have known me for years but have never seen my tattoos can be hilarious when they do see them,some people become negative,but on occasion women who haven't taken any interest before suddenly become friendly,usually non tattooed women, I never follow this interest up as I find that a bit strange.

I agree about not wanting or needing to dress like a hooligan,in fact I don't dress to attract attention ( I tend to dress for my own 'gratification' if that's the right expression ).

I also see these types who seem to have become skinheads / hooligans / bikers in middle age and I give them a wide berth the same as the 'still a skinhead at 55 mob' or the re-enactment lads, one of the oddest things for me is the guys with both arms completely sleeved and no other tattoos,usually with a large gold earing and a large dog on a chain..LOOK AT ME,please look at me !

People ( myself included as you have just seen ) are quite judgemental about appearances,I am sure this goes back to ancient times where you had to look at someone and make a quick decision if they were safe or dangerous,fight or flee...the Look for me should be a bit understated,innocuos,even boring to someone who sees me,toned down as you say.

As I have said before one of the great things about wanting 'the Look' now is that because there is no definitive style as in the skinhead period for instance,we can be more creative and experiment,I would be the first to admit that I have got it wrong many times,this is one reason why this thread is so interesting to me,to see what other peoples ideas are.

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I have a sort of opposite situation in the case of meeting people for the first time who might have preconceived notions: In my profession(professional musician), when "normal/straight/regular" people meet me, typically the first thing they say is, "wow, you look so normal", or "you don't look like a punk rocker!", etc. And to the latter I always say, "that's because I'm not a punk rocker and I never was". Of course, especially in America, I'm not going to say, "I was a skinhead...", as of course you have to qualify that with so much crap and I'm not going to explain or justify myself to the world.

Yeah the nice thing about the look is you CAN sort of pick and choose different aspects of it that work together as some sort of continuum of style... though at all our advanced ages(haha) we can leave out the bleached skin-tight jeans with matching jacket, Ronald McDonald cherry red boots with bright colored laces, and a flight jacket with a million patches and badges on it. We can and should leave the '80s and '90s behind, even if others our age(s) won't or are newly embracing it(so embarrassing).
I'm sure most here have got the look wrong over the years, and with time and experience have refined their personal style and know what does and doesn't work for their body type, as well as stepped away from anything that might just make them simply look like a clown or caricature with ill-fitting clothes.

Kingstonian said:

It is very difficult to buy quality these days. If I could shop down the High Street I would be happier, but I cannot. I have to seek stuff out. Whereas as decades ago it mostly was all there for you.

I saw several coats that looked really good but were obviously decades old on pensioners who had them forever presumably.
The association of clothes with individuals is a difficult one. It seems a pity to avoid decent stuff that is not particularly flash just to avoid wisecracks. If it was costume then that is different. Yet you could probably walk into a pub in cargo shorts in winter and nobody would say anything. Funny old world.
.

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It certainly is tough to buy quality unless you want to drop a ton on your clothes. Here in Boston I usually stick with J. Press --who can pretty much do no wrong as far as I'm concerned; I look just fine in a sack jacket-- or Brooks Brothers for some items like the Advantage Chinos, socks, some shoes, and few other things. Other than that it L.L. Bean or other "established" labels for v-neck lambswool sweaters and such. Unfortunately some of the other miscellaneous items tend to be mailorder.

That is the double-edged sword with the clothes association. I had a Tootal-type silk scarf on when me and the boys were going to the hockey game, and a buddy made a crack about how he should have taken the T(underground) with me so he could have gotten one of those free ascots... But you know, as much as (yeah)we dress for other people, we still gotta make ourselves happy, too.
A lot of my old pals have pretty much given up on looking good, and fair play to them. Most of us are out of the game(violence-wise as well as ladies-wise) and are married-- but I still like to look good. It just makes me feel good. My Dad, bless him, is a Hawiian shirt, bowling shirt, or company polo shirt and cargo shorts almost year-round kind of guy, but his father was a nice chinos, buttondowns, golf jacket sort of fellow, and my other grandfather was an army man and even in his 80s he dresses well. My grandsires influenced my look so much so that my Dad(a longer-haired rocker to this day), said that my Grampy, if he were alive when I was a little skinhead, would have loved the short hair, neat clothes, etc.

He also asked if I go running in my wing-tips(brogues)!! Haha.

I know it was a Facebook page and is some weird film thing, but the term "the Neat Offensive" is pretty apt in describing how I present myself in a world of sloppy, scruffy, unkempt people.

Too much to agree with here.

For the record I was a skinhead until I grew up properly around 21 but enjoyed my ma1 and Solovairs (black! 8 hole!) this winter, though was careful to avoid the 'full house' of Fred Perry, button down shirt, etc. Not a single tattoo on me, I got a downer on tattoos as a teenager from having mates with teardrops and the like, but to be quite honest if I got a tattoo it would be on my face and be done with it.

Kingstonian said:

It is very difficult to buy quality these days. If I could shop down the High Street I would be happier, but I cannot. I have to seek stuff out. Whereas as decades ago it mostly was all there for you.

I saw several coats that looked really good but were obviously decades old on pensioners who had them forever presumably.


The association of clothes with individuals is a difficult one. It seems a pity to avoid decent stuff that is not particularly flash just to avoid wisecracks. If it was costume then that is different. Yet you could probably walk into a pub in cargo shorts in winter and nobody would say anything. Funny old world.
.

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I agree that finding quality is difficult these days,for me it can either mean making a tedious journey or taking pot luck online,and you still don't get the quality of yesteryear.

I saw a pensioner wearing an ancient but good quality coat a few weeks ago and remarked to my workmate that you couldn't buy a quality coat now that would last as long.

I guess that with tv and the internet there can hardly be a recognisable item of clothing that has not become associated with some character.

Also with you on the winter cargo shorts wearer and/or the t shirt in pouring rain/freezing cold, I am happy not to understand that mentality.