or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1211

post #18151 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreister View Post

Hi all,

Thought I'd join in on the conversation finally, after reading (I think) the entirety of this thread and enjoying it immensely.  I particularly enjoyed the Rolex discussion that was had over the last 25 pages or so.  My own Rolex purchase was preceded by my moving through all 3 stages of thinking about Rolexes as mentioned by the forbes article posted here a while back.  In the end, prompted by a desire to own a watch with dual time zone functionality and the feeling that I could wear it anywhere, I ended up with an 116710. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 Obligatory wrist shots below (please excuse the crappy phone pics):






On another note, I wanted to weigh in on the brand exclusive boutique business model that's been discussed recently.  I apologize in advance for the length and detail of this post.
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the article; I found that it was unusually perceptive, especially for something from a general-interest publication. I've been enjoying the discussion here quite a bit as well; it's always a pleasure to learn something new, and the signal-to-noise ratio here is among the best I've seen when it comes to watches in general.

There are a few good reads here about their new facility in Bienne that, as an industrial systems engineer, I find a bit fascinating. Their production techniques are perhaps not the most romantic, but I have to admire their pursuit of absolute manufacturing precision. The logic of choosing ultra-fine-tolerance machining when it's appropriate, and employing people when the human touch is most suited — such as the delicate tasks of hairspring curving, balance wheel truing, positional adjustment and component assembly — is difficult to fault.

In this sense their design and manufacturing ethos is far more German than traditional Swiss, which makes sense as seem to have carried on their born-in-Germany founder's watchmaking philosophy. Even head Patek Philippe honcho Thierry Stern mentioned in a Hodinkee interview:
Quote:
"The quality of Rolex is fantastic, and to keep that so high making as many watches as they do is incredible. I would love to see the Rolex factory, but they never let me in!"
—hat tip to No Frills

I wasn't too surprised to read that, as the companies make fundamentally different watches that complement each other well. Their relationship is more symbiotic than competitive, with Patek's products offering beautiful hands-on craftsmanship and little to no overlap with Rolex's essentially-perfected mass production.

http://www.timezone.com/2012/12/13/the-rolex-factory-in-bienne-by-james-dowling/

http://www.watchtime.com/featured/rolex-bienne/

Their bespoke dust-free temperature-controlled machining modules are a bit mind-blowing, as are the details of their hairspring production. For a company that I had dismissed, prior to meeting a top watchmaker in 2009, as a mere marketing machine with nothing special behind the curtains, I'm rather stunned at how wrong I was.



Great choice on the new GMT II — it's all you need, and it's the best do-anything watch currently produced, IMHO — and thanks for the engaging post.


Edited by Belligero - 2/19/13 at 8:10am
post #18152 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

I wish more watches did this. I have always struggled to figure out what the day before and after the current day is. This is such an elegant way of fixing the problem.

Just in case anyone is wondering, the actual reason for the triple date wheel is so that when the minute hand obscures the date at the 15min mark, you can still tell the date.

IMO that said, its still the laziest solution ever to an inconsequential problem. Sort of sums up the current state of IWC when you think about it.
post #18153 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Just in case anyone is wondering, the actual reason for the triple date wheel is so that when the minute hand obscures the date when it reaches the 15min mark, you can still tell the date.

IMO that said, the its still the laziest solution ever to an inconsequential problem. m
That's the excuse they use for it, at least. The reality is even worse than laziness, and it's an example of true design illiteracy.

That lame-o cutout is there for the sole reason that they're trying to imitate the look of an aircraft altimeter, which — besides being laughably gimmicky — completely goes against the first rule of true pilot's watch design, which is "keep it simple and uncluttered".



The cutout on a real altimeter is necessary for legibility and allows vital information that can increase or decrease at a variable rate to be interpreted more quickly while flying. It's essential to the instrument's function.

The date shown on the altimeter-wannabe XVII's ETA 2892 movement does not even remotely constitute safety-critical information, plus it's a freaking static display. The extra numbers in this case add nothing except messiness and the opportunity for confusion. This is fundamentally incompetent "gee-whiz" ornamentation that has absolutely no place on a real pilot's watch. Regrettable, as IWC once made mostly no-BS stuff across the range, and now they're going further off the rails with each new design.

Robert Bringhurst's words on typography as it relates to bicycles come to mind:
Quote:
You are designing, let us say, a book about bicycle racing. You have found in the specimen books a typeface called Bicycle, which has spokes in the O, an A in the shape of a racing seat, a T that resembles a set of racing handlebars, and tiny cleated shoes perched on the long, one-sided serifs of ascenders and descenders, like pumping feet on the pedals. Surely this is the perfect face for your book?

Actually, typefaces and racing bikes are very much alike. Both are ideas as well as machines, and neither should be burdened with excess drag or baggage. Pictures of pumping feet will not make the type go faster, any more than smoke trails, pictures of rocket ships or imitation lightning bolts tied to the frame will improve the speed of a bike.

Amen, brother.
Edited by Belligero - 2/19/13 at 5:46am
post #18154 of 37531
Good reads on the last couple of pages! biggrin.gif

A touch of red today ... Old pic.

Klokkebilder598.jpg
post #18155 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton View Post

Off to Dubai next month. As I have heard watches is cheaper there then normal. Is this information correct?

 

No.  They have no sales tax, which is a novelty as a European.  But the whole "shopping destination" thing is rather overplayed.  It used to be a bit of a marketing wild west with some bargains to be had, but now it's as established as London or Paris with far more monopolies and fake sales to boot.

 

Also, this applies doubly to premium products: a pair of John Lobb shoes at Dubai Mall is significantly more expensive than buying them in Europe or the US, as far as I recall.  I suspect the same will be true of watches, and certainly true for the marked price - everyone expects a "special discount", so they tend to label 10% at the very least over RRP.

 

The reason?  According to the man I spoke to in John Lobb, they don't sell much most of the time.  Then "one Russian will come and buy EVERYTHING."  Game over.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

 You don't bargain for shoes, you don't bargain for clothes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post


I don't really expect to negotiate the price on bespoke clothes or a custom made watch.

 

You don't?  I haggle over everything!  Washing machines, spectacles, anything!  It's always worth it - and very rare that you get nothing at all: even those who "never discount" have thrown in vouchers, or free gifts like shoe trees, a desk fan, a tie, to name a few I've had that come to mind.  In any other kind of business you try to negotiate, don't you?  I don't see anything rude or wrong in applying the same principle to a retail transaction - they can only say "no".

 
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Like anything the value is whatever a person is willing to pay.  Watches aren't the only item besides cars or homes that people negotiate the prices.   

 

Yes indeed!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post


I think what I find perturbing is the huge discrepancy in what people pay. When one person walks out of an AD paying $3,500 for a watch with an MSRP of $5,000, and I walked out paying $4,500, I cannot help but feel that I was being swindled.

 

 

Absolutely.  If you can get 30% off just by asking or logging into eBay, then 30% less IS the real price.  And an experience like you describe leaves a bad feeling about the purchase, and a negative association with the brand.  That's why I understand completely what some makers are trying to do.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Great flowing exchange, guys. I love this blend of watchmaker history, speculations about management and pricing strategy, and down-to-earth assessments of individual pieces, whether they suit your tastes, and how they actually wear on your wrist.

 

This is one of the reasons why I love visiting this thread, and continue to learn so much as I build my small collection.

 

Me too - I know little, own less, and will probably not be "collecting" any time soon.  But this is the most civilised, educational and informative thread on the forum.  It even prompted me to look at other watch sites, and quickly change my mind: the competitive, pompous, pretentious dick-waving trivia contests that most of their discussions become, are simply vile.  This is where it's at!

 

I only came to this site to answer some questions about shoes, and only joined to sell a pair.  I fear I might have acquired a watch infection along the way.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreister View Post

Hi all,

 

Thought I'd join in on the conversation finally, after reading (I think) the entirety of this thread and enjoying it immensely. 

 

 

And contributions like this make it even better - the last few pages we've covered Asian economics, marketing strategy and who knows what's next?  This is the thinking man's thread on SF!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


Robert Bringhurst's words on typography as it relates to bicycles come to mind:
Amen, brother.

 

I've no idea what that reference means, but the sheer erudition of that post makes me feel warm inside.

 

Happy days.  But my nights are ruined with weird dreams about expensive watches...

post #18156 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

Good reads on the last couple of pages! biggrin.gif
A touch of red today ... Old pic. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Klokkebilder598.jpg

please to come by and photograph my watches. smile.gif
post #18157 of 37531

 

rainy days

post #18158 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

Good reads on the last couple of pages! biggrin.gif

A touch of red today ... Old pic.

Klokkebilder598.jpg

great photo
post #18159 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

rainy days
That's pretty sweet how you matched the tie and the phase of the moon. I absolutely love the way JLC places those stars in the sky on their discs.
post #18160 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


rainy days

this is pretty much perfect. love it.
post #18161 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the article; I found that it was unusually perceptive, especially for something from a general-interest publication. I've been enjoying the discussion here quite a bit as well; it's always a pleasure to learn something new, and the signal-to-noise ratio here is among the best I've seen when it comes to watches in general.

There are a few good reads here about their new facility in Bienne that, as an industrial systems engineer, I find a bit fascinating. Their production techniques are perhaps not the most romantic, but I have to admire their pursuit of absolute manufacturing precision. The logic of choosing ultra-fine-tolerance machining when it's appropriate, and employing people when the human touch is most suited — such as the delicate tasks of hairspring curving, balance wheel truing, positional adjustment and component assembly — is difficult to fault.

In this sense their design and manufacturing ethos is far more German than traditional Swiss, which makes sense as seem to have carried on their born-in-Germany founder's watchmaking philosophy. Even head Patek Philippe honcho Thierry Stern mentioned in a Hodinkee interview:
—hat tip to No Frills

I wasn't too surprised to read that, as the companies make fundamentally different watches that complement each other well. Their relationship is more symbiotic than competitive, with Patek's products offering beautiful hands-on craftsmanship and little to no overlap with Rolex's essentially-perfected mass production.

http://www.timezone.com/2012/12/13/the-rolex-factory-in-bienne-by-james-dowling/

http://www.watchtime.com/featured/rolex-bienne/

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Their bespoke dust-free temperature-controlled machining modules are a bit mind-blowing, as are the details of their hairspring production. For a company that I had dismissed, prior to meeting a top watchmaker in 2009, as a mere marketing machine with nothing special behind the curtains, I'm rather stunned at how wrong I was.



Great choice on the new GMT II — it's all you need, and it's the best do-anything watch currently produced, IMHO — and thanks for the engaging post.

 

I agree completely in re: the Forbes article.  For a topic that generates such heated debate that it can consume 20+ pages of even a thoughtful and generally pleasant forum like this one, they impressed me greatly by summarizing the discussion in under 2,000 words.

 

Thanks also for the links above.  Can't wait to check them out when I get some time later today.  Admittedly, I'm no systems engineer, so hopefully I can share your appreciation.

 

As a more general PSA - I tried to post this last night, but it doesn't seem to have shown up in the forum this morning, so I'll try again.  Here is the link to the dropbox file for the model I posted yesterday.  I've decided that it's more sensible to make the google doc read-only, as I don't have time to monitor it for any changes.  If you just want to have a look, the google doc should be fine.  If you'd rather waste an hour or so playing with the model, just download and feel free to post any results or mistakes I've made.

post #18162 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


That's pretty sweet how you matched the tie and the phase of the moon. I absolutely love the way JLC places those stars in the sky on their discs.

 

YES to this comment re: tie and moonphase.
post #18163 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post


Just in case anyone is wondering, the actual reason for the triple date wheel is so that when the minute hand obscures the date at the 15min mark, you can still tell the date.

IMO that said, its still the laziest solution ever to an inconsequential problem. Sort of sums up the current state of IWC when you think about it.


The actual reason for the triple date is fashion. Luxury watches are not immune from fashion. In sporty watches, especially Pilot style this has been popular for the last few years and of course IWC is far from the only company doing this.

post #18164 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton View Post

Off to Dubai next month. As I have heard watches is cheaper there then normal. Is this information correct?

Not in my experience. To put things in perspective, people fly out of Dubai and hit London or Paris for the weekend... to shop.
post #18165 of 37531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


That's pretty sweet how you matched the tie and the phase of the moon. I absolutely love the way JLC places those stars in the sky on their discs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


this is pretty much perfect. love it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

 

YES to this comment re: tie and moonphase.

 

 

Thanks guys!

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread