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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 3119  

post #46771 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

So true.  I have them back from the days when a Calatrava was $9,400 (before a 30-40% discount) and steel Subs were $2,850 (before a 10-15% discount)  

 

:fu:

 

Sigh. It's depressing enough to think of how much prices have risen over the past decade or so, without also thinking about how the availability of discounts off the MSRP has plummeted at the same time as prices have risen precipitously! 

post #46772 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hey, nice to see you around these parts again!  Hope all is well ! cheers.gif

Im doing splendidly, thanks. Ever since the 15300 though my watch needs feel quenched. I also spend most of my day dealing in watches, so there is that too. smile.gif

/notsohumblebrags
post #46773 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Im doing splendidly, thanks. Ever since the 15300 though my watch needs feel quenched. I also spend most of my day dealing in watches, so there is that too. smile.gif

/notsohumblebrags

Well you certainly chose wisely!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #46774 of 48312

http://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-tudor-heritage-black-bay-black

 

Thoughts?  Looks nice, but I'm surprised there isn't an in-house movement.  

post #46775 of 48312
I like it, and I'm not even usually that much of a Tudor fran.
post #46776 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post

http://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-tudor-heritage-black-bay-black

Thoughts?  Looks nice, but I'm surprised there isn't an in-house movement.  


I find the case sides are unnecessarily thick, which gives a bit of a bulky, oafish in real life. They also need to eradicate that minging Arial on the dial. (For the benefit of the non-regulars: What’s wrong with Arial? Without question the most important reason not to use Arial is because it makes you look like a rube.)

While I can't get too excited about yet another generic-movement diver's watch, it has the potential to be something very special when they put one of their MT movements in it and sort out those few easy-to-fix flaws.
post #46777 of 48312
The funny thing is that when they follow your advice and produce a better watch, in 20 years time it will be the less good looking one that people did not buy that will be worth more to collectors.
post #46778 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

The funny thing is that when they follow your advice and produce a better watch, in 20 years time it will be the less good looking one that people did not buy that will be worth more to collectors.

I'm not so sure about that.

What I find characteristic among older watches that were initially neglected but are desirable now is that they show evidence of the skilled human touch. The PN Daytona is a prime example; it was unpopular while it was in production, but it's a great-looking watch whose design has stood the test of time. Likewise, the original 5402ST Royal Oak was a flop when it first came out, but it's now widely recognized the masterpiece among so many great watches from Gerald Genta.

There are also plenty of watches that look passé or just plain ugly over time, and their valuation tends to reflect this.

I truly can't see anything that's clearly conceived using a computer operated by someone lacking in design education becoming collectible. Serious collectors tend to notice visual details, and most companies (Tudor certainly included) have weaknesses in that respect, though some are more obvious than others. It's a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect; the same lack of skill that results in so many mediocre-looking modern watches is what makes their creators unable to recognize how unskilled they are.

And it's not only the generic ETA and ETA-clone stuff; I also think that many modern Pateks are going to disappoint those who believe the hype. I doubt that they're going to be be valued anywhere near what the pre-designed-on-Windows examples can be.
post #46779 of 48312
I just added a codicil to my will which instructs that my gravestone markings be in Arial.



tounge.gif
post #46780 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

The funny thing is that when they follow your advice and produce a better watch, in 20 years time it will be the less good looking one that people did not buy that will be worth more to collectors.

Looks can be a factor, but there are other variables that come into play such as utility, and then we also have to consider changes in technology and lifestyle.  I think a great example of looks and utility killing sales when new is the original (orange hand) Rolex Explorer II ref 1655.  AD's couldn't give them away when they were new.  They dial was sort of choppy looking with hatch marks everywhere, the orange hand was sort of large and unattractive to many, and although it used a GMT movement it was less function as it only gave military time, while a GMT could give military time or time in a second time zone.  GMTs outsold Ex2s by a significant amount.  

 

However, today no one really cares that much about the utility of a vintage watch.   For decades people paid little attention to 1655s but now they are highly collectible and sought after due to their low sales and relative rarity compared to GMTs and Subs of the day.  Hell, there are now people who adore the looks of them, so perhaps a newer generation of collectors feels differently about them in terms of looks, functionality than original purchasers did in the 1970s...or perhaps interest in that model is just driven by speculators. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


I'm not so sure about that.

What I find characteristic among older watches that were initially neglected but are desirable now is that they show evidence of the skilled human touch. The PN Daytona is a prime example; it was unpopular while it was in production, but it's a great-looking watch whose design has stood the test of time. Likewise, the original 5402ST Royal Oak was a flop when it first came out, but it's now widely recognized the masterpiece among so many great watches from Gerald Genta.

I agree with much of what you have said, but I think there are a few points go beyond the issue of mere looks.  With regard to manual wind Daytonas all were unpopular when they were new, be it the standard dial or the PN dials.  One of the main stumbling blocks to selling Daytonas from the 1960's through the late 1980's was that they were manual wind watches.  At that time, collecting wasn't the hobby it has grown into over the last 20 years and Rolex had become well known for making self winding watches.  People coming in to purchase a Rolex largely expected and wanted an automatic Rolex.  Daytonas looked great, but buyers back then were put off by the idea of having to manual wind Rolex.   I often wonder if  Rolex had switched to the El Primero base movement sooner whether the watches like the 6263 & 6265 would have sold better when new.

 

As for the RO...while a polarizing design, one of its main stumbling block when new was that it was incredibly expensive for a steel watch when it was released.  No company had ever tried selling steel watches at that price point.  It was a watch that cost as much if not more than many of AP and other high end brands' gold watches.  Perhaps as others joined the ranks with expensive steel watches such as the PP Nautilus 3700, and the VC 222 - the RO's price no longer seemed as off putting and insane.  One of the other issues was that the RO was released when the quartz revolution was getting stronger...so the idea of buying a very pricey automatic watch probably seemed crazy to a lot of consumers.   I do agree the design isn't for everyone, its simply I think there are several reasons it took a while for the RO to become a sales success. 

post #46781 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post

http://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-tudor-heritage-black-bay-black

Thoughts?  Looks nice, but I'm surprised there isn't an in-house movement.  

Loved the Only Watch, but this one doesn't do it for me.

So apparently, it's the snowflakes?

I know that's one of the (more visible) features, something that clearly separates the Tudor from a Rolex Sub, amongst others... but I guess it's just one of those matters of the heart.

Much preferred the straight hands on the Only Watch.

However, this version will sell like proverbial hotcakes, methinks.
post #46782 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I agree with much of what you have said, but I think there are a few points go beyond the issue of mere looks. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 With regard to manual wind Daytonas all were unpopular when they were new, be it the standard dial or the PN dials.  One of the main stumbling blocks to selling Daytonas from the 1960's through the late 1980's was that they were manual wind watches.  At that time, collecting wasn't the hobby it has grown into over the last 20 years and Rolex had become well known for making self winding watches.  People coming in to purchase a Rolex largely expected and wanted an automatic Rolex.  Daytonas looked great, but buyers back then were put off by the idea of having to manual wind Rolex.   I often wonder if  Rolex had switched to the El Primero base movement sooner whether the watches like the 6263 & 6265 would have sold better when new.

As for the RO...while a polarizing design, one of its main stumbling block when new was that it was incredibly expensive for a steel watch when it was released.  No company had ever tried selling steel watches at that price point.  It was a watch that cost as much if not more than many of AP and other high end brands' gold watches.  Perhaps as others joined the ranks with expensive steel watches such as the PP Nautilus 3700, and the VC 222 - the RO's price no longer seemed as off putting and insane.  One of the other issues was that the RO was released when the quartz revolution was getting stronger...so the idea of buying a very pricey automatic watch probably seemed crazy to a lot of consumers.   I do agree the design isn't for everyone, its simply I think there are several reasons it took a while for the RO to become a sales success. 

No disagreement here. My point is that a watch has to be more than just initally-polarizing and unpopular to become collectible; very few of them have stood the test of time. I don't think the "older, uglier = more valuable" thing is true; it seems to be quite the opposite. Despite having a 116520, I have no problem saying that older Daytonæ look better than new ones.

There are other factors that influence rarity — no doubt the original Daytona would have been much more successful if it was self-winding, and the RO would have been a better seller if quartz hadn't just arrived on the scene — but the watch still has to look good to enough collectors in the future to become valuable. There are plenty of unattractive watches that are rare for good reason, and they ain't worth much now.
smile.gif
post #46783 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


No disagreement here. My point is that a watch has to be more than just initally-polarizing and unpopular to become collectible; Despite having a 116520, I have no problem saying that older Daytonæ look better than new ones. There are plenty of unattractive watches that are rare for good reason, and they ain't worth much now.
smile.gif

+1  :fistbump:

 

Agree completely on those points.  There is certainly no shortage of rare, ugly watches that are not worth very much.  Cheers!

post #46784 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Thanks for the tip! I usually buy one of these every couple of years.

Great reference material, and especially helpful that it includes retail/list pricing info that the manufacturers often don't include on their websites.

(So you can look back and see how "cheap" a certain model used to be, and think about how much you could have "saved" by purchasing that Calatrava or Submariner 10 years ago LOL biggrin.gif )

Actually, now that I think about it, I believe that I'm on an odd-year purchasing pattern, so I'll probably skip this one and wait for the 2017 issue. Have to check on that when I get home.

Edit: Ball on the cover .... I wonder how they decide these things?

Indeed, I really don't get Ball. Though I find essentially nothing appealing about them, I suppose somebody must be buying the things if they're still in business.
post #46785 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAUGRANA View Post
 

Was doing my nightly round of research and browsing last night and was looking at the reverso 1931 "re-issue" if you will and noticed it came in rouge as well.  Anyone know if they did the 1931 style in any other colors?  I liked the rouge actually, but just curious if they did anything else. 

 

I believe there is a LE green version as well. I think it's a London boutique issue.

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