Bespoke Shooting Suit- recommendations

I dont know how many shooting suits he cuts, but Graham Browne I've heard good things of (for city suits anyways), or like everyone else I suggest Bookster (got an overcoat from them, amazing quality and great customer service!)



JLibourel said:

If you look at photos of the shoots during the golden age of wingshooting in Britain, roughly from 1870 to the outbreak of the Great War, nary a pleated bi-swing back will you see, yet they managed to bag an enormous number of birds. I think this feature only began to come into vogue in the interwar years.

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I'm not sure about that -- 1870 is quite a long time ago so I don't profess knowledge as to what they wore, but you might be right. I can only speculate that the fit of the coats might have been different? Today, coats are relatively well fitted and it's almost impossible to draw your gun fast enough without the aid of bi-swing pleats, if you wear a shooting jacket. Or you might like to see it as a feature that enhances performance. There's no reason why just because a feature was not present during the golden age, means that its inclusion doesn't enhance performance today.



NorfolkMan said:

Has anyone had recent experience of buying a bespoke /MtM shooting suit in London (not saville Row).

grateful for any views/comments.
Thanks

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I can recommend Graham Browne (city tailors off Bow Lane near Bank). They have made up a couple of heavy tweed sports coats for me, not shooting jackets but still. Love their stuff and reasonably priced; about £ 900-1200 for a two piece suit depending on mats.



bboysdontcryy said:

I'm not sure about that -- 1870 is quite a long time ago so I don't profess knowledge as to what they wore, but you might be right. I can only speculate that the fit of the coats might have been different? Today, coats are relatively well fitted and it's almost impossible to draw your gun fast enough without the aid of bi-swing pleats, if you wear a shooting jacket. Or you might like to see it as a feature that enhances performance. There's no reason why just because a feature was not present during the golden age, means that its inclusion doesn't enhance performance today.

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Well, in the interests of empirical testing, while wearing a W.W. Chan Shetland tweed jacket I happened to have on, I took out my nice English-style sidelock double gun from Grulla of Eibar and tried mounting and swinging it on birds in my yard. I could not discern that a conventional sport coat handicapped me in the least. Nonetheless, I would be the first to admit that I am not nearly as proficient in wingshooting as I am with with either pistol or rifle.

Among other sources, I checked Game Shooting by the eminent British gunmaker, shooting authority and forensic ballistician Robert Churchill (of "XXV" fame). In most of the illustrations he was wearing a garish-looking shooting suit in a bold houndstooth tweed, complete with breeches and a matching cap. It did not have the pleated, bi-swing back, and this was well after they had come into vogue.

As far as enhancing performance goes, Lord Walsingham and Lord Ripon are still, I think, ranked as the two greatest game shots of all time, and they managed without the bi-swing back.

If a man wants to get a shooting jacket or suit with this feature, it's fine with me, but I don't think it should be considered a sine qua non of a good shooting suit.

On a final note, what do you mean by "drawing" a gun in this context? Here in the States we "draw" our handguns. Our shotguns we "mount."



JLibourel said:

Well, in the interests of empirical testing, while wearing a W.W. Chan Shetland tweed jacket I happened to have on, I took out my nice English-style sidelock double gun from Grulla of Eibar and tried mounting and swinging it on birds in my yard. I could not discern that a conventional sport coat handicapped me in the least. Nonetheless, I would be the first to admit that I am not nearly as proficient in wingshooting as I am with with either pistol or rifle.

Among other sources, I checked Game Shooting by the eminent British gunmaker, shooting authority and forensic ballistician Robert Churchill (of "XXV" fame). In most of the illustrations he was wearing a garish-looking shooting suit in a bold houndstooth tweed, complete with breeches and a matching cap. It did not have the pleated, bi-swing back, and this was well after they had come into vogue.

As far as enhancing performance goes, Lord Walsingham and Lord Ripon are still, I think, ranked as the two greatest game shots of all time, and they managed without the bi-swing back.

If a man wants to get a shooting jacket or suit with this feature, it's fine with me, but I don't think it should be considered a sine qua non of a good shooting suit.

On a final note, what do you mean by "drawing" a gun in this context? Here in the States we "draw" our handguns. Our shotguns we "mount."

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You're missing the point -- just because a feature wasn't included (long ago before tailors decided to innovate) doesn't mean that it's inclusion doesn't increase performance, no matter how marginal. Who's to say that Ripon wouldn't have shot even more game had his tailor decided to add pleats?

Just because you don't think so, and it seems like you don't have one with a bi-swing back (gauging from your posts, I think it's sufficient for me to infer so), doesn't mean that it doesn't aid performance. Logically, think about it, extra room created by the addition of pleats is for show? If you think so, be my guest.

To give you another example -- it's considered correct form not to have vents for a dinner suit. Sure, people got by. Comfortable? I don't think so.



bboysdontcryy said:

You're missing the point -- just because a feature wasn't included (long ago before tailors decided to innovate) doesn't mean that it's inclusion doesn't increase performance, no matter how marginal. Who's to say that Ripon wouldn't have shot even more game had his tailor decided to add pleats?

Just because you don't think so, and it seems like you don't have one with a bi-swing back (gauging from your posts, I think it's sufficient for me to infer so), doesn't mean that it doesn't aid performance. Logically, think about it, extra room created by the addition of pleats is for show? If you think so, be my guest.

To give you another example -- it's considered correct form not to have vents for a dinner suit. Sure, people got by. Comfortable? I don't think so.

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Of course, I don't have a shooting suit! I am an American, and Americans don't commonly wear shooting suits. Besides, if I wore one at the start of dove season, I would surely die of heat prostration, and in a lot of our quail country--amid the mesquite, manzanita, prickly pear and Spanish dagger--well, it would mean the rapid demise of a nice tailored garment. Anyway, as I noted early on, I don't think too many British shooting men wear them these days.

Does Cordings do a made to measure maybe?



David Reeves said:

Does Cordings do a made to measure maybe?

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They does, but still in their unflattering cut. Might as well walk across the street and give Huntsman a shout.



bboysdontcryy said:

You're missing the point -- just because a feature wasn't included (long ago before tailors decided to innovate) doesn't mean that it's inclusion doesn't increase performance, no matter how marginal. Who's to say that Ripon wouldn't have shot even more game had his tailor decided to add pleats?

Just because you don't think so, and it seems like you don't have one with a bi-swing back (gauging from your posts, I think it's sufficient for me to infer so), doesn't mean that it doesn't aid performance. Logically, think about it, extra room created by the addition of pleats is for show? If you think so, be my guest.

To give you another example -- it's considered correct form not to have vents for a dinner suit. Sure, people got by. Comfortable? I don't think so.

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My friend, you need to post your awesome b-swing coats to finish the argument!! The new one from the fitting was EXCELLENT!!!!

I have a vintage shooting suit with a conventional back and a newer tweed jacket with an action back (which is the same thing as a bi-swing back, I think). I've shot skeet (and the occasional bird) in both jackets, and it's definitely easier in the action back.

NorfolkMan said:

Went into GB today- without my valet who was polishing my shoes- and am pleased to report that the shooting suit is alive and well.
Hardest bit is choosing which tweed to go for- will post some photos when the suit is finished.

Cheers boys

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Yes it is, and I am looking forward to seeing pictures of what you end up with please!

In England it does seem like Bookster is still one of the most common from what is posted on shotgun world. And in the US there is still Ermilo Clothier in Pa. http://kermilio.wix.com/ermilio-clothier- among others. I think some are confusing shooting and field. Although Barbour did make a dual purpose jacket for a few years. I recall in the early 70's that it was common for men in suits to be shooting trap and skeet, at least in Upstate NY. Today in the US a shooting jacket is more likely only seen at a few special double gun events with a classic SxS being used. And in the field in the Southeast US at an old style Plantation quail hunt with mule drawn wagons or buggies. But outside of that you will not see one on the trap or skeet field any more, and never for what the English would call rough hunting.

The original shooting jacket, the Norfolk, was designed with a loose fit across the back and shoulders to prevent restriction of movement. Most action back shooting jackets are now bi-swing. Good shooting to you.



bboysdontcryy said:

it's almost impossible to draw your gun fast enough without the aid of bi-swing pleats, if you wear a shooting jacket.

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I am still waiting to learn what "drawing your gun" means in this context.



JLibourel said:

I am still waiting to learn what "drawing your gun" means in this context.

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Too obvious?

I've got a three piece shooting suit, but it's not Bespoke. I bought it for my first pheasant shoot in Exeter about a decade ago. Since that time, I've been on probably 3 shoots in the Borders (Kelso area). Pheasant shoots in Great Britain are elaborate affairs, even though you can get muddy. You wear a dress shirt and tie, vest/waistcoat, suit coat and knickerbocker style pants. You wear long socks and hold them up with flashes: http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=3G6X
When you actually go into the field, you switch to rubber wellingtons because you walk through fields to get to where you will be shooting.



JLibourel said:

I am still waiting to learn what "drawing your gun" means in this context.

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I find your raising of this matter borderline weird. When it seems your logic is problematic on your main point, you then try to quibble over a slip which is not even tangentially related. If I mean to use a forum the way I do legal work, I'd proof read my posts many times. Truth is, I don't, this is a source of entertainment and thus, slips occasionally occur because I happened to be thinking about something else when I'm writing. You've never made an unintentional slip? Maybe you have but nobody bothers to point it out to you since it's quite farfetched to do so if it isn't the main point.

Also, was wondering if you know that handguns have been used for quite some time now when hunting mid-sized games (even big game). Should the gun be drawn then?

If for the record, you insist on knowing why that slip happened: I can't say for certain why, but from my memory, I happened to be multi-tasking and chatting with an American about football and also about Obama's gun-control strategy though I do not recall what exactly when I was replying. Does that satisfy you? And it might be well be because I was thinking about guns (note I didn't say draw your shotgun ...)

For the record, I do know that you mount your shotgun, I served in the military for a couple of years.

On an unrelated note, these days another technique that tailors use is to have a single piece back with multiple darts in them to give allowance and space.