Yohji, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Looser Fit (Yohji Yamamoto Thread)

[the shah]



shah, that piece looks good slim. check parker's recent photo where he wears something similar up top (cubism jacket ?) paired with hakamas. looked awesome

nothing looks good slim anymore lol it's all about voluminous comfort in luxurious fabrics long live yohji !

 

[asobu]

That AW07 short coat is indeed pretty slim. it has a peculiar fit, I wasn't too amazed by it when I tried it on, didn't feel right somehow but I probably also needed to size up one. There's also a boiled wool blend version that fits super slim, a 4 fits like a regular 2 from the same collection (for instance the various knit insert blazers). Lovely fabric though, the back button detail is cool as well

 

[dantebykiko]

while still on y's topic. i've been working a lot for the past 10 days and haven't got any chance of wearing much yohji. big thanks to asobu for those y's videos! just in time to show few new and couple of old y's pieces.

fit1: y's wool trousers with the white and black lines along the legs, y's wallet chain and my new y's sweater - all the stripes are sewn together.
fit2: stan smiths x jam home, y's cotton trousers, y's wallet chain and new y's long sleeve t-shirt with print on the back - very nice sleeve pattern. little fun with the print.
fit3: yyph boots, vintage cropped trousers, y's wool wrap - (it's one of the first yohji item i bought from 2nd hand shop, it's actually womens), y's black shirt (raw edges and cut and sewn back + cut off cuffs, collar), y's fitted wool jacket (again one of the first yohji item i bought for next to nothing, now i know it's not y's for men but y's - size 3).

 

[pickpackpockpuck]



I also think that's probably why at the end of the day the stereotypical Yohji fit should be described as "anti-fit".

Funny, I just stumbled on this quote from Yohji: "I want to achieve anti-fashion through fashion; that’s why I am always heading in my own direction, in parallel to fashion."

 

[syed]

Damn, Dante you rock the house

I feel like that Balzac quote is being a little misunderstood and is probably more in line with the opinions I have read in this thread. The boor is simply a boor. I find it hard to believe that anyone in this thread would proclaim themselves a boor, for the simple fact that we are writing about quite expensive, exsquisite clothing on a forum, which at it's most basic level is a discussion place for aesthetics of clothing. A boor by definition would never have even thought about clothing in any meaningful way. The rich man adorning himself is the triumph of "$tyle" over substance and likely represents a lack of taste due to overwrought extravagances and the desire to show off one's worth. Conversely, the fool attempts to create substance by creating a facade using clothing as his medium, without realising that clothing cannot hide the deficiencies of character and/or personality. In regards to the elegant man "just getting dressed", I believe that effortlessness and nonchalance are being circumscribed here and not some "MC Archetype". I remember reading somewhere in this thread how someone (was it Ivwri or Asobu?) said that he had begun to dress himself according to feeling without looking in the mirror or something to that affect, in short "just getting dressed". I think elegance presupposes a certain level of taste, which is then also combined into the realisation that clothes alone do not "make the man" with the end result being that, ideally, one simply gets dressed.

I'm with you on this interpretation.

The 'boor' looks simply to cover himself - there is no real thought about aesthetic quality, merely a personal preference tempered within the what he considers/understands to be socially acceptable. He simply wants clothes to cover him and don't make him stand out from the crowd. And so you see some men working in an office, ill-fitting suits and oddly matched shirts and ties. Or on the weekend a sea of men in jeans, t-shirt and trainers. There is a sense of safety in these socially prescribed uniforms - *this* is what you wear to work, *this* is what you wear on your days off. Of course there will always be a certain amount of personality expressed through that uniform, e.g. a quirky tie given to him for Christmas by his son, a t-shirt with a print that he thought looked fun, a shirt chosen for him by his wife (apparently over half of the men working in the City of London, i.e. central, wear a garment or outfit chosen for them by their significant other every single day!). But generally speaking he sees fashion as a bit of a nonsense - "these clothes do the job". That sense of apathy (whether genuine or simply used as a way of covering anxiety) would be the characteristic of the 'boor'.

A man who wears Yohji, regardless of whether he wears it simply to blend into the background and not draw too much attention, has made a conscious choice. He is not simply looking for clothing to 'cover himself', economic factors aside, the rebellious nature of Yohji's work is immediately apparent. Oversize, baggy, anti-fit - hardly what a man looking to just be part of the crowd looks for. In fact he would be looking for jeans and a t-shirt. Yohji himself complains about the fact that the universal uniform of young people these days is jeans and t-shirt, wherever you seem to go. In that sense I think its universality and generic quality means that it can be considered as part of the 'boor' characterization.

Now the 'rich man' and 'fool' are two distinct categories, albeit related. The 'rich man' will adorn himself, either because of our old friend conspicuous consumption, or simply because it is part of the social scene. Your average wealthy man is more likely to be buying the more 'traditional' Italian or American or whatever brands, rather than something more avant-garde (I do hate that term). Again he wants to belong to part of the crowd, even though in this case it is a smaller crowd - that of those with wealth and all its perceived cultural trappings. More money than style often leads to buying lots of overly decorative and overblown clothing. Picture your average Arab or American playboy, and the aesthetics and consumption tastes/habits are similar. Of course the wealthy and the so-called 'cultured' may have a different style, and indeed one needs only look towards the time when every 'artistic' soul in New York wore Yohji (but of course that was still a small minority in the grand scheme of things).

The 'fool' adorns himself because he sees adornment as more important than the basic ideals of fit, proportion, aesthetic harmony, etc. (of course the application of these does not have to follow traditional values, as Yohji shows). He sees eye-catching prints and loud elements, and decides to wear these. Look to your average high street shop and you see t-shirts and jumpers where the design IS the print. The garment itself is nothing special, but it sells because it has some colourful print or image that appeals to the customer. In this instance he is considered a 'fool' because he focuses on the wrong element - the print as opposed to the quality of the t-shirt itself, but it is upon that basis that the majority of fast fashion is based.

The 'elegant man' gets dressed. He considers what he is about to put on, puts it on, and it works. It is not the same as 'adornment', because one does not see disparate surface pieces, but rather a whole image. He does not stand out in the traditional eye-catching sense, rather he has a certain harmony with his clothing. He simply is, and his clothing simply is. I think that is the relationship that Yohji is able to provide, and the relationship I am always trying to discover. Yohji talks about how beautiful a woman at work is, because she loses any self-consciousness about how she looks or how she is dressed, she simply gets on with whatever she is doing. I think that his menswear can provide that - these are clothes to go to the supermarket in, clothes to work in, clothes to go to a restaurant in. They are designed to be comfortable, beautiful and suitable for everyday. It is about a feeling rather than necessarily about a look (a bit of a paradox given that it is ultimately fashion we are talking about), but I think that the image of wire.artisit dressing without the aid of a mirror encapsulates that.

Syed of Dapper Kid (not sure of his height, but he doesn't seem particularly tall and Yohji looks good on him)

Bad camera angle I'm a touch over six foot. My brother is two inches or so shorter than me and I think he actually looks better in Yohji than I do. Although admittedly I'm built like a stick with narrow shoulders and he's pretty much a standard size small - size 3 fits a charm on him.

 

[snowmanxl]

wait, dante, whats going on in pic 3?!? is it a blazer paired with a shawl? it looks fantastic, could we get some more shots of that please!!

 

[Arche]

This is a bit of a random aside, but having recently been exploring the exotic landscape of the Japanese auction sites, I've really been getting a laugh out of the sometimes hilariously surreal Google translations of the item descriptions. Given the whole "loose fit" aesthetic of a lot of Yohji's stuff, I found it a comical irony that his name repeatedly gets translated by Google as "Toothpick Yamamoto".

 

[pickpackpockpuck]

Hah, sorry Syed. My bad. Well, regardless Yohji still looks good on you. Same for you, Kiko. That hat is great too.

 

[vlad-s]

with regard to using his own name, Tadashi Kubo just menioned in regards to the "for sale" jacket he wore at the paris show: "名前がブランドの彼はつねづね自分が売り物のようだとボヤいていて、ジャケットにfor saleとnot for saleをつくりました。冗談でね。" I guess that ties in a bit with what you mentioned, or am I completely missing the point here? I wouldn't trust my japanese, hehe

I will humbly attempt to translate what is in the quotes.

"Always grumbling about how he, himself, has become almost like a commodity, his name being the brand and all, he put 'for sale' and 'not for sale' on his jackets. It's a joke."

Regarding Toothpick Yamamoto... according to the dictionary Yohji can mean toothpick when spelled with the characters for willow and bough: 楊枝. And, yes, Rakuten in English, as well as other software translations, I imagine, are horrific.

P.S.
love this thread!

 

[asobu]

^exactly - 自分が売り物のようだ - which is why I thought maybe it ties in somewhat with what catastophes mentioned about yagou being more natural to use instead of his own name, etc. It's funny becuase I think that jacket caused some confusion for the audience - perhaps about the future of the brand in some cases - when in actuality it's just a typical yohji "inside" joke

edit: and yes, "youji" also means toothpick, hehe, which is how the brandname is spelled (not using kanji for his name) so the translation gets messed up

 

[pickpackpockpuck]



Regarding Toothpick Yamamoto... according to the dictionary Yohji can mean toothpick when spelled with the characters for willow and bough:  楊枝.  And, yes, Rakuten in English, as well as other software translations, I imagine, are horrific.  

This explains so much. Looking on Rakuten I was always

I wish there were a better way for non-Japanese speakers to navigate Y! Japan. I know there's a lot of good stuff there but I still find it too difficult to search through.

 

[catastrophes]

Quote:

no. that and also having one's own name on everything they have is something kids would do.
japanese kids (especially yohji's generation) had to do this at school. but naturally it's the subject of cool kids' breach.


I asked them why it was Y's while the content was practically YY. they said: "we wanted to use yagou".
when you say specifically yagou in this kind of context, it conveys a bit special meaning.
it is different from mere/dry company name. it in a quaint and somewhat charming way represents their spirit.

 

[Ivwri]

What I wore today -

YYPH SS12 stand collar jacket
Alexander McQueen striped Tee
YYPH SS00 trousers
Y's boots

 

[valter]

Hervia has some AW2012 pieces for sale now:
http://www.hervia.com/mens-c2/yohji-yamamoto-m37

also couple of pictures from Yohji's rue Cambon store's facebook page:

 

[Parker]

edit: cool photos, valter. thanks for those. looks like they have the Fall jacket with the "sharktooth" buttons! the hervia store looks pretty cool inside.

nice fit, ivwri. "dat jacket".. as the kids say ;-)

I wore some new stuff today:
Y's cotton long jacket (closeout from Gilt)
YYPH SS12 cubist shirt
Coming Soon linen-wool pants (black this time)
Superga black leather
Zissou belt