How to identify Lobb Prestige & St Crepin?



tj100 said:

You're confusing a few things here. There are a few different categories:
JLP RTW
JLP MTO
JLP Bespoke
JLSJ (Bespoke)
All John Lobb St. James are bespoke. They are easy to tell from JLP simply by the branding in them. The John Lobb logo is sort of a signature on the insole, and the royal warrants are present. It's quite easy to tell a JLSJ shoe from a JLP shoe. The lasts are also quite different (in my opinion, the JLSJ shoes are not handsome).
The three JLP categories can be more difficult to tell. I've never seen a pair of JLP Bespoke in person. I believe the only marking on the inside is the John Lobb signature (similar to JLSJ), but no royal warrants.
JPL RTW and MTO are indistinguishable unless you really know your JLP history. You'd have to know that a particular model was never made in the color/last/sole for RTW. The shoes are basically indistinguishable, but an obvious tip-off would be different sizes on the left and right shoes (a common MTO request), or a really odd color.

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Havent they been using the St James 2 royal warrants on the insoles for some time already?
I have seen JLs dating back decades with the 2 royal warrants on them. So how can one tell whether its recent?

As for JL Paris, I have shoes with John Lobb Paris printed but I have also seen John Lobb Paris in a cursive writing.
Just an update and does not mean different makes?

BTW how about distinguishing Crockett & Jones normal and CJ by Dmitri Gomez?



Jangofett said:

Havent they been using the St James 2 royal warrants on the insoles for some time already?
I have seen JLs dating back decades with the 2 royal warrants in them. So how can one tell whether its recent?

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I don't think there's any way to legitimately date John Lobb St. James shoes; they have changed very little over the decades, so it's very hard to tell how old they are.

Jangofett said:

As for JL Paris, I have shoes with John Lobb Paris printed but I have also seen John Lobb Paris in a cursive writing.
Just an update and does not mean different makes?

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Currently (and in the recent past) the cursive "John Lobb Paris" denoted bespoke from JLP, printed logo was for RTW/MTO. On older shoes, I'm not sure if this is the case.



Jangofett said:

Havent they been using the St James 2 royal warrants on the insoles for some time already?
I have seen JLs dating back decades with the 2 royal warrants on them. So how can one tell whether its recent?
As for JL Paris, I have shoes with John Lobb Paris printed but I have also seen John Lobb Paris in a cursive writing.

BTW how about distinguishing Crockett & Jones normal and CJ by Dmitri Gomez?

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This is the logo which JL (Paris) uses for bespoke work: just the “handwritten” John Lobb going lengthwise over the ‘sock (insole cover)



John Lobb (London) uses the signature going crosswise and adding ‘London-Paris-New York, (which is a bit of bull, as they sold the Paris branch in 1976 and, as far as I know, never had a brick and mortar presence in New York).



They also use the Royal Warrants: Queen and Duke of Edinburgh from the 1950s, adding the Prince of Wales after his investiture in 1969. Maybe five years ago the firm lost the warrant from HM the Queen, so now, they’re back to two again.

This is the logo JL (Paris) uses for ready-to-wear (manufactured in Northampton, England)



There is no such thing as a collection "C&J by Dimitri Gomez". Gomez has designed a number of lasts (and possibly shoe designs) for C&J, but in this respect he is no different from other freelance designers. His own work isn't signed with Gomez either, but with "Dimitri - Bottier"

http://www.dimitribottier.com/1.aspx

Hope that helps.

Haha, I never noticed that - cheeky! In a side note, a mate of mine plays cricket with John Hunter Lobb.

I'm not sure what you mean by "brick and mortar" presence but there is a john lobb shop on 71st or 72nd and Madison. The shop sells RTW JLP shoes. I'm not sure how long its been there but it seems to have been at that location for some time - of course, I dont think they "make" shoes on the premises, but doesnt that count as a B&M location?



PhiloVance said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "brick and mortar" presence but there is a john lobb shop on 71st or 72nd and Madison. The shop sells RTW JLP shoes. I'm not sure how long its been there but it seems to have been at that location for some time - of course, I dont think they "make" shoes on the premises, but doesnt that count as a B&M location?

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Yes, but that is JL Paris and the insole stamp (London - Paris - New York) is from JL St. James. JLSJ certainly did have storefronts in Paris and London, but NYC is a mystery. It seems unlikely that JL St. James ever had a NYC storefront, given that they have only ever made bespoke shoes (the RTW range was developed by Hermes after the acquisition of the Paris shop).

Ah, I see your point. Thanks for clarifying!



bengal-stripe said:

There is no such thing as a collection "C&J by Dimitri Gomez". Gomez has designed a number of lasts (and possibly shoe designs) for C&J, but in this respect he is no different from other freelance designers. His own work isn't signed with Gomez either, but with "Dimitri - Bottier"
http://www.dimitribottier.com/1.aspx
Hope that helps.

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Ah!

That explains the difficulty in finding and failing to find CJ by Dimitri.
I have also failed to find LV done by another French shoe maker, was it Dimitri as well?
And the difficulties in finding Yohji by Corthay.
There are still some Jil by Lattanzi floating around though.

BTW have the Northampton sales started again?
Anyone noticed the number of resellers listing new Lobbs again at a variety of sizes and at upwards of 300 pounds?

Here is an interesting development.

If all bedevelled Lobb soles are Prestiges and on that basis Aintree are Prestiges, then what about this?

[ATTACHMENT=1623]$(KGrHqR,!lgE7HCkP)rrBP!ZklQRVg~~60_3.jpg (61k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]

Thats an Aintree and it comes with normal soles?
Did Lobb bungle and put the wrong soles and hene list it as an 'R'?
Or is this a downgrade of Aintree from Prestige to RTW?

Anyone has any views??

Those look beveled to me. Not sure about bedevelled.



KObalto said:

Those look beveled to me. Not sure about bedevelled.

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Uh yah beveled not bedevelled.
However, the soles look smooth and don't have that whitish rectangular patch where the front of the foot is, which are found in Prestiges.



Jangofett said:

Uh yah beveled not bedevelled.
However, the soles look smooth and don't have that whitish rectangular patch where the front of the foot is, which are found in Prestiges.

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It's clearly a beveled sole, but not painted black, as Lobb typically does to its bevels. My guess is that either it was left natural at customer request, or got its "R" reject before soling, and they just threw on a spare beveled sole they had lying around. I think the concept of "prestige" goes a little out the window with factory rejects - if it didn't meet quality standards, can you really consider it a "prestige" shoe?

That said, has anyone ever seen prestige rejects?



NORE said:

That said, has anyone ever seen prestige rejects?

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I don't own any, but I have definitely seen prestige models with an "R" stamp available for sale.

Interesting.