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How to identify Lobb Prestige & St Crepin? - Page 3

post #31 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

I don't own any, but I have definitely seen prestige models with an "R" stamp available for sale.

Absolutely. Tons of R Prestiges for sale. Thats the only way hoi polloi like me can afford Lobb Prestiges other than owners wishing to sell their old Prestiges.

You are right to query whether an R Prestige is really a Prestige just like whether a polar bear with brown fur is really a polar bear.
Hmm the mind boggles.

But my latest discovery throws a spanner in the works because we cannot identify Prestiges or St Crepin by bevelled soles anymore.
The only way is to do so by knowing their models, which can be difficult since as you have pointed out, some models are not commonly or well known or could not be found in their website.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

Absolutely. Tons of R Prestiges for sale. Thats the only way hoi polloi like me can afford Lobb Prestiges other than owners wishing to sell their old Prestiges.
You are right to query whether an R Prestige is really a Prestige just like whether a polar bear with brown fur is really a polar bear.
Hmm the mind boggles.
But my latest discovery throws a spanner in the works because we cannot identify Prestiges or St Crepin by bevelled soles anymore.
The only way is to do so by knowing their models, which can be difficult since as you have pointed out, some models are not commonly or well known or could not be found in their website.

Was talking with my son about this earlier. Did you know polar bears are black with clear hollow fur?

to the point, Lobb St. Crepin by earthdragon here

234
234

That sole is enough to make me want Lobbs even if the uppers are ghastly.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

But my latest discovery throws a spanner in the works because we cannot identify Prestiges or St Crepin by bevelled soles anymore.

Not really. The Aintree you posted clearly has a bevelled sole. It's just not painted black. The sole color doesn't have anything to do with the range that the shoe is in.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post


That sole is enough to make me want Lobbs even if the uppers are ghastly.
I thought the uppers on the 2011 St. Crepin was ghastly until I saw it in person, and then tried it on. There seemed to be a night and day difference, at least IMO.
post #35 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

Not really. The Aintree you posted clearly has a bevelled sole. It's just not painted black. The sole color doesn't have anything to do with the range that the shoe is in.

Well, yes. But if one were to look at less than perfect pics off the net or to the uninitiated, one cant tell immediately whether the soles are bevelled or not.

The easiest way is by identifying the painted black soles like in NORE's pic. In fact, I have more than 1 R Prestige with such painted black soles and I was surprised Lobb didnt have a consistent approach in painting all Prestiges ' soles black. So, the best way is still to identify by the shoes model if the soles are not black.

Seems like Sausages doesn't know he got a Prestige. If he did, he would have priced it accordingly.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

The easiest way is by identifying the painted black soles like in NORE's pic. In fact, I have more than 1 R Prestige with such painted black soles and I was surprised Lobb didnt have a consistent approach in painting all Prestiges ' soles black. So, the best way is still to identify by the shoes model if the soles are not black.

This method doesn't work; Lobb has made non-prestige shoes with painted black soles (though they were all black, as opposed to the black/natural pattern of the bevelled waist).

It's also not my experience that prestige shoes command much of a premium in the secondary market. At least, not in B&S - the eBay sellers hype everything as "prestige" and hope for the best.
post #37 of 47
Thread Starter 
1. Have never seen a black sole Lobb before, other than those with rubber soles.

2. As for pricing of Prestige, I have managed to sell a Prestige at slightly higher pricing than non Prestiges.
Guess its a matter of marketing, marketing, marketing.

If a Prestige cost 1 to 2 grand brand new, the buyer may just fork out 100 to 200 more for it used.
Of course, things like museum finish do affect the final pricing.

BS is a bit odd. There are some sellers who let go of their Lobbs including Prestiges at low prices.
Some just put a high price like 700 to 1 grand and wait.
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

1. Have never seen a black sole Lobb before, other than those with rubber soles.
2. As for pricing of Prestige, I have managed to sell a Prestige at slightly higher pricing than non Prestiges.
Guess its a matter of marketing, marketing, marketing.

If a Prestige cost 1 to 2 grand brand new, the buyer may just fork out 100 to 200 more for it used.
Of course, things like museum finish do affect the final pricing.
BS is a bit odd. There are some sellers who let go of their Lobbs including Prestiges at low prices.
Some just put a high price like 700 to 1 grand and wait.

(1) I'll try to remember to take a photo at home tonight; I definitely have a few black-soled non-prestige (all loafers IIRC).

(2) For BNIB examples, they probably do get a small premium, but it's pretty small. From what I've seen, the big determinents of price are size, model/color (a black City II will be a pretty expensive shoe) and whether or not the trees are with the shoes. Considering that most prestiges come with trees (and others don't) I've always believed that it made up most of whatever price gap there is.

BS has two distinct kinds of sellers: the ones who are trying to make money, and the ones who are not. One population is happy to churn inventory at cost (keeping things they like, selling things that don't work for them), and the other wants to make $$$ - hence the gap in offering prices.
post #39 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

(1) I'll try to remember to take a photo at home tonight; I definitely have a few black-soled non-prestige (all loafers IIRC).
(2) For BNIB examples, they probably do get a small premium, but it's pretty small. From what I've seen, the big determinents of price are size, model/color (a black City II will be a pretty expensive shoe) and whether or not the trees are with the shoes. Considering that most prestiges come with trees (and others don't) I've always believed that it made up most of whatever price gap there is.
BS has two distinct kinds of sellers: the ones who are trying to make money, and the ones who are not. One population is happy to churn inventory at cost (keeping things they like, selling things that don't work for them), and the other wants to make $$$ - hence the gap in offering prices.

(1) Now I remember - I used to have a Lobb with black soles. But its a boat shoe with thick and hard black rubber soles.

(2) I beg to differ. I sold unused Lobbs, with shop wear compared to used Lobbs. Noticed a big discernible increase in bidding activity and easily 50 to 100 more than used Lobbs.

Any black 'labelled' shoe will fetch a good price.

Shoe trees are interesting. For some reason, people like wooden shoe trees with Lobb, EG, Corthay or Berluti metal plaques on them and would pay more for them than normal trees. So yes, if one were to include trees, one can get more for them since buyers can convince or rationalise to themselves to pay 50 plus more for them.

On this note, the prices of Lobb are off the charts now! Its a good time to sell your Lobbs if you got some nice ones and I managed to ride the crest of successful Lobb selling.

About a year ago, I managed to sell a Lobb for a paltry 200 and another, with less than 5 wears and almost no crease, for less than 300.
Now, I can get 400 to 500 for them easy and without trees.
There are plenty of interest from South Korea and Japan. Don't know why, but Lobb could be increasing their presence there and them folks think paying less than 1 grand for good and used Lobb is still cheaper than buying them new from the boutiques.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

On this note, the prices of Lobb are off the charts now! Its a good time to sell your Lobbs if you got some nice ones and I managed to ride the crest of successful Lobb selling.
About a year ago, I managed to sell a Lobb for a paltry 200 and another, with less than 5 wears and almost no crease, for less than 300.

I totally agree with this. You probably have more recent info than I do - I stopped even looking @ eBay and B&S because the prices got to a point where it was just easier to wait for the sales at Madison Ave & SCP.

It used to be a rare shoe (even BNIB) that commanded more than $500 in the secondary market; now it seems like that's the entry point.
post #41 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

I totally agree with this. You probably have more recent info than I do - I stopped even looking @ eBay and B&S because the prices got to a point where it was just easier to wait for the sales at Madison Ave & SCP.
It used to be a rare shoe (even BNIB) that commanded more than $500 in the secondary market; now it seems like that's the entry point.

I think it used to be a loooonng time ago on BS when used shoes are dirt cheap.
Now, even the Vash goes for like 500 and more at times.

But there are always bargains to be found. Saw a Lobb recently which couldnt sell despite being less than 200. The seller couldnt sell probably due to the non descript picture and tepid description. Like I said, its all about the marketing!
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

I think it used to be a loooonng time ago on BS when used shoes are dirt cheap.
Now, even the Vash goes for like 500 and more at times.
But there are always bargains to be found. Saw a Lobb recently which couldnt sell despite being less than 200. The seller couldnt sell probably due to the non descript picture and tepid description. Like I said, its all about the marketing!

Believe it or not, I used to track them on a spreadsheet (so I would be able to make reasonable offers). In Q1 2011 (a year ago), the average BNIB Lobb sold on B&S went for $508. Most expensive was $855 (it was a Philip II with trees). My spreadsheet stops in mid-summer 2011.

I will say that just browsing B&S today, there are many more examples for sale than there were a year ago. Way more.
post #43 of 47
Thread Starter 
Sir, thats certainly impressive.

I just use a gut feel as to whether I think the shoes are worth the price the seller is asking for looking at condition, finish etc.

I just looked at BS again as well and notice most shoes are now in the 500 and more region except for the Aldens etc.
To me, thats high since my Lobbs were all gone for 400 plus region and I did not make any loss selling them.

I personally would not pay 500 for a Lobb unless its Prestige or a kickass Lobb like sweet museum finish.

I did not even pay 800 for my Prestiges. Er, except for one Vintage model with trees. Kind of regret it as I got the exact pair in different finish with the same trees 6 months later for like half the price I paid.

Most of my Prestiges were bought at less than 800 like 700 brand new and I already feel the pinch and I even passed on Prestiges at maybe 400? because I have way too many brown shoes!
Edited by Jangofett - 1/5/12 at 6:26pm
post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jangofett View Post

Sir, thats certainly impressive.
I just use a gut feel as to whether I think the shoes are worth the price the seller is asking for looking at condition, finish etc.
I just looked at BS again as well and notice most shoes are now in the 500 and more region except for the Aldens etc.
To me, thats high since my Lobbs were all gone for 400 plus region and I did not make any loss selling them.
I personally would not pay 500 for a Lobb unless its Prestige or a kickass Lobb like sweet museum finish.
I did not even pay 800 for my Prestiges. Er, except for one Vintage model with trees. Kind of regret it as I got the exact pair in different finish with the same trees 6 months later for like half the price I paid.
Most of my Prestiges were bought at less than 800 like 700 brand new and I already feel the pinch and I even passed on Prestiges at maybe 400? because I have way too many brown shoes!

Ultimately, it got to be a pointless exercise, because I could guess just by gut feel where the transaction was going to be. But it was interesting to see the impact of various factors (size, model, etc.).

Also, I concluded that I'd rather pay the sale price @ Madison Ave and SCP for a BNIB shoe, with trees, with bags, etc. than spend hours searching B&S for a "great deal" that was only going to save me a couple hundred bucks.
post #45 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

Ultimately, it got to be a pointless exercise, because I could guess just by gut feel where the transaction was going to be. But it was interesting to see the impact of various factors (size, model, etc.).
Also, I concluded that I'd rather pay the sale price @ Madison Ave and SCP for a BNIB shoe, with trees, with bags, etc. than spend hours searching B&S for a "great deal" that was only going to save me a couple hundred bucks.

Well, its pointless because many sellers just see what others priced their shoes at and follow suit. Some shoes will sell at a price point agreed privately between buyer and seller and we would be none the wiser of the actual selling price.

The more accurate barometer will be ebay's auction system, the odd bid rigging aside.

Like you, I used to monitor the prices of Lobbs. Prestiges and not RTW because that will be insane.
I notice that real St Crepins and what is stated as Prestiges can go for 700 upwards and even 1000 for St Crepins.
Of course there are some price aberations. So I relied on this for my theory that Lobb Prestiges can fetch more than RTW.
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