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world cup - Page 69

post #1021 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
Look at De Rossi's punishment - 4 games for an arguably unintentional elbow while jumping and going for the ball.
unintentional? You have to be kidding me!!

!luc
post #1022 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by countdemoney
Arguably? Even his coach wasn't willing to defend it. The shame is that DeRossi got to thug it up in the finals. He should have been banned for the tourney and additional games after it.

"There is no doubt that he is a lad who is considered to be a fantastic kid and an excellent player but he has to change his ways" . . . added the Italy coach

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...371589&cc=5901

There's absolutely no call for play like that.

If you're saying De Rossi's actions (both the foul and immediate apology afterward to McB) were worse and more deserving of punishment than ZZ's...
post #1023 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
If you're saying De Rossi's actions (both the foul and immediate apology afterward to McB) were worse and more deserving of punishment than ZZ's...

Absolutely. And without a doubt. De Rossi and Materazzi were the initiators. Zidane was reacting to the unacceptable behaviour of Materazzi with some even more unacceptable behaviour (which he also apologized for by the way). But he was provoked. That's a big difference right there. FIFA is no fool.
post #1024 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203
Absolutely. And without a doubt. De Rossi and Materazzi were the initiators. Zidane was reacting to the unacceptable behaviour of Materazzi with some even more unacceptable behaviour (which he also apologized for by the way). But he was provoked. That's a big difference right there. FIFA is no fool.

Apples and oranges. As to the incident at issue, Materazzi didn't punch, kick or tackle ZZ - he spoke to him. Again, I'm not defending MM's action - he is in the minds of many, including me, a highly detestable player - but players are provoked all the time. And the more you get a reputation for reacting to provocation, the more you're going to be insulted and taunted. ZZ has a long history of violent conduct that has seen him dismissed from more than his fair share of games for the same kind of bullshit (headbutting, stomping on players, etc.) - a class player finishing his career in a WC final should be able to hold it together and ignore the likes a goon like Materazzi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203
FIFA is no fool.

You might get some argument there...
post #1025 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
Apples and oranges. As to the incident at issue, Materazzi didn't punch, kick or tackle ZZ - he spoke to him. Again, I'm not defending MM's action - he is in the minds of many, including me, a highly detestable player - but players are provoked all the time. And the more you get a reputation for reacting to provocation, the more you're going to be insulted and taunted. ZZ has a long history of violent conduct that has seen him dismissed from more than his fair share of games for the same kind of bullshit (headbutting, stomping on players, etc.) - a class player finishing his career in a WC final should be able to hold it together and ignore the likes a goon like Materazzi.

I don't disagree with any of that. Nor do I want to defend Zidane for his behaviour. But it is pretty obvious to me (as it was for FIFA) that his punishment should be lower than De Rossi's. That's all.
post #1026 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203
I don't disagree with any of that. Nor do I want to defend Zidane for his behaviour. But it is pretty obvious to me (as it was for FIFA) that his punishment should be lower than De Rossi's. That's all.

Yes, the blood... What if ZZ had splattered his nose?

I think ZZ got off easy, and FIFA penalized MM as well in order to bolster the image of their Golden Ball winner...
post #1027 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
Yes, the blood... What if ZZ had splattered his nose?

I don't think you get the point yet. ZZ reacted (although excessively and wrongly) to a provocation. DeRossi initiated the violence out of thin air. That is the main difference, not the blood or any of your conspiracy theories/fantasies about FIFA and the Golden Ball... FIFA doesn't even have anything to do with the Golden Ball. They don't organize it, award it or even have the power to take it away.

I made that point several times and I will stop repeating it here. Are you so blinded by the love of Italian football that you cannot see this simple set of facts?
post #1028 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203
I don't think you get the point yet. ZZ reacted (although excessively and wrongly) to a provocation. DeRossi initiated the violence out of thin air. That is the main difference, not the blood or any of your conspiracy theories/fantasies about FIFA and the Golden Ball... FIFA doesn't even have anything to do with the Golden Ball. They don't organize it, award it or even have the power to take it away.

I made that point several times and I will stop repeating it here. Are you so blinded by the love of Italian football that you cannot see this simple set of facts?

Yes, I get your point. I'm saying two things (and then I'll stop repeating myself): 1. FIFA's punishment of MM for verbal provocation was, as far as I know, unprecedented (please correct me if I'm wrong). Many people (not just me!) think it was done in an effort to 'share the blame' and save ZZ's image. 2. The violent actions of DDR & ZZ are distinguishable (and not b/c ZZ was provoked) given the nature and context in which the violence occurred. DDR's elbow, while completely excessive and inexcuasable, occurred in the context of two players going for the ball. DDR was fighting to get in front of McB by using his upper body to gain momentum while going up for a header. Given what I know about the young man, I'm disinclined to believe he would intentionally try to injure another player, unlike monsieur Zizou.

Plus, I'm trying to hit 70 pgs!
post #1029 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
Yes, I get your point. I'm saying two things (and then I'll stop repeating myself): 1. FIFA's punishment of MM for verbal provocation was, as far as I know, unprecedented (please correct me if I'm wrong). Many people (not just me!) think it was done in an effort to 'share the blame' and save ZZ's image. 2. The violent actions of DDR & ZZ are distinguishable (and not b/c ZZ was provoked) given the nature and context in which the violence occurred. DDR's elbow, while completely excessive and inexcuasable, occurred in the context of two players going for the ball. DDR was fighting to get in front of McB by using his upper body to gain momentum while going up for a header. Given what I know about the young man, I'm disinclined to believe he would intentionally try to injure another player, unlike monsieur Zizou.

Plus, I'm trying to hit 70 pgs!

1. As I am Belgian I remember Nenad Jestrovic(Anderlecht) being sent off and being suspended after provoking (in a racist way) Sissoko(Liverpool) in a Champions League match. I think the things MM said to ZZ were, although not racist, unforgivable. The suspension he gets for saying them repeatedly is no more than fair to me.
2. In the analytical panel on Belgian television was the President of the Belgian Commitee of Referees. He said that referees are able to distinguish between intentionally and unintentionally elbows by looking at the hands of the players. When the hand is 'loose' the elbow in unintentionally, when the hand is a fist the elbow is intentionally. This is a subconscient physical reaction because with an intentional elbow you plan to release more power and thus form a fist with your hand. For what this reasoning is worth, De Rossi's hand was in a fist while elbowing the American player.

Don't really want to discuss the fairness of the duration of the suspension, just to provide background...
post #1030 of 1044
If Zidane wishes to file a formal complaint against Materazzi(which is what he did) then I think we should know precisly what Materazzi said to provoke such a reaction. Materazzi has been condemned officialy and in the court of public opinion, yet, what was it he said? FIFA certainly is no fool, it knew exactly how to sweep the whole thing under the rug, a closed door session where everyone took their slap on the wrist, and more importantly, Zidane was not forced to explain himself publicly.
post #1031 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by manicturncoat
Materazzi has been condemned officialy and in the court of public opinion, yet, what was it he said?

We will never know exactly what was said but ZZ's account is certainly suspect. He and his people spent days spinning their story while MM told his side of the story immediately.
post #1032 of 1044
Thread Starter 
inter have been rightfully awarded the 2005-2006 championship. there is justice in the world.
post #1033 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by matadorpoeta
inter have been rightfully awarded the 2005-2006 championship. there is justice in the world.

Italian Super Cup will be Inter/Roma?
post #1034 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan
Italian Super Cup will be Inter/Roma?
considering that inter hold both the cup and the scudetto, do they not receive the super cup automatically?
post #1035 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by matadorpoeta
considering that inter hold both the cup and the scudetto, do they not receive the super cup automatically?

Perhaps if the scudetto were won outright

No, as this is the kick-off fixture there's surely some rule in place to ensure a match. I'd imagine the Coppa runner-up would be pitted against the champions - in any event, Roma were the runners-up in both competitions so....

70?
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