Computer Science/IT Career/Education Thoughts?

I was wondering how many of you guys work in the field and what you think of it? I'm about to enter my junior year and looking to head into the field. I'm mostly interested in security and that's what my concentration is. I'm from the DC area if it matters. Also what's a reasonable salary to expect out of school?

Also would it be more worthwhile to finish up a BS in either CS or IT or go for a BS in EE, CE or SE (electrical engineering, computer engineering or system's engineering). It's not that I'm indecisive it's just that my mother keeps making me second guess my choice and pushes engineering.

thanks

IT gets lumped together as a single career path, but really there is a lot of variability in the types of work available and what you'll be doing from day to day. You may not get to pick the area you work in when you start. You say that you are interested in security, but i'd advise getting a generalists job to start-out. That way you can get exposure to different areas. You may find out that you prefer one area far more than another, and it may not be the area you think it will be. I started doing programming, moved in to systems admin, but now i'm focusing on high-end networking.

I personally feel that MIS/IT degrees are pretty worthless. CS would be a much more worthwhile endeavor, as you'll learn useful skills that you can apply on the job. Everything else you will learn on the job, or you can learn from technical books and certification paths.

Now I'm not a security expert, but being able to code in C and other languages will help you better understand various attacks. There is also an emphasis on safe coding practices these days. Being able to analyze code for security best-practices can only be an asset. Overall, it's just really useful to know how to code. In a *nix environment you will almost certainly have to deal with scripting/coding. I have to deal with perl, php, sql, and vb.net/vbscript in my job. An MIS degree wouldn't help you learn any of that. I've looked at curriculum and they're filled with fluff courses imo. If you're working on the security side of things you will almost certainly be working in linux from time to time, if not a lot of the time, and in linux you'll have to compile all kinds of different software. People with no programming background can get lost fairly quickly in linux. I can't even count how many times i've tried to compile software under linux and the compile failed for one reason or another. Knowing how to code and therefore understand compilation errors makes life tremendously easier.

A lot of IT people try to get by without the programming, and I think it's a huge mistake. Even though programming can be its own career, it is still essential for a good IT person, but a lot of them hate it and try to avoid it. In a lot of jobs, you won't get to focus just on one area, especially when you are starting out. If you can setup automation/monitoring using scripts and other small programs, you will make yourself far more efficient and useful imo.

The Eng degrees are great, and comp. eng will have a significant programming part, but most of it isn't very useful for security work. What it will say to employers is that you're a smart dude. Overall, of the degrees you listed, based on what you want to do, CS will definitely provide you with the most useful skills directly upon graduation.

Salaries start low in IT. If you got 40k with no experience you'd be very lucky. However, if you're ambitious, you can increase that fairly quickly, and within a few years, if you're good, you can be at or near 100k. One of the nice things about IT is that your skills are almost 100% transferable from one job to the next, and you can work for any type of organization. The most important thing is getting job experience though. Try and get the helpdesk crap out of the way in university if you can. Maybe you can help out the university IT. Even if they're not hiring, they probably accept volunteers. You may also consider doing some entry-level certifications like the CCNA or MS ones.

GQ hit the nail on the head. CS is your best bet for what youre outlining.

On the security side of things they trade on knowledge more so than certs. While most entry level (lvl 1/2) type stuff will ask for a cert, MSCE, A+, CCNA, that sort of thing is usually an HR dept throwing around key words, the key is going to be gaining some OJT.

Starting salary youre looking at 35-40k.

I'm majoring in IT, focused in information systems security as well, and I've already got a fulltime job lined up when I graduate with a well-known consulting firm with a starting salary of 74k (I'm an intern now). It's contingent upon me getting my TS/SCI clearance. Cleared work is where it's at, and there is a high demand for cleared personnel in the DC area. The tough part is finding a company that will sponsor you for one tho. Having connections is what it's all about. It's very possible that with a clearance I will be into six figures within in a few years.

I would have went with a CS or engineering degree if I had the stomach for all the math/programming. Those degrees def. get more respect then just a regular IT/IS degree and if you are capable of doing them I would say go for it.

In the end, it's who you know, not what you know.

EDIT: Without a college degree I was making 45k as a Linux Sys Admin before I decided to finish my bachelors. But again, I had connections.

For working in securities, Computer Engineering is a waste - unless you want to get more into the portion dealing with bugs/taps/etc. I did computer engineering and as a senior project, programmed a microcontroller that could be plugged inline in ethernet cable and detect VOIP traffic. If that is more what you are wanting, CmpE is the way to go (CE = Civil engineering, CmpE=Computer engineering).

If strictly computer based hack attacks and stuff, CS is the better choice because you have more free reign to choose your electives. I was only given limited chances at upper level computer science electives because I had to take all the digital and electronics courses from electrical engineering.

I did a coop while in school and it helped me get a job with that company right out of college at 55000 + bonuses (which Q1 was 3200 and Q2 should be higher). The money is out there.

My university provided average starting salaries for different majors for 1st year students right out of college and CmpE and CS were comperable.

An IT specialist without coding knowledge is easily replacable.

thanks for the info. however by engineering i meant as a different career. the only issue is that there are about 3 times more tech jobs in the area than engineering jobs. I took four semesters of Cisco's CCNA in high school however I never took the certification exam. A guy I know who worked in the area told me when he was with symantec that fresh out of school kids were making 65k doing basic cracking and intrusions (admittedly it got my hopes up). I compared the curriculums at my school at IT students are required to take Java programming and PHP programming, not sure if thats different from other places while CS seems to have programming covering a wide spectrum of topics. I've been trying to find internships but no luck yet. EDIT: Hayling are you willing to help a stranger in the DC/VA area?

My friend's brother graduated from Syracuse a year or two ago with a computer science degree. He was working for the company that got that deal for the new fleet of Executive branch helicopters, but the cessation of that cost him his job. He just got hired at Lockheed Aeronautics in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. They have like 400 job openings for IT and CS types.

Not my cuppa, but it seems to be a pretty sturdy field to go into.

I refuse to put computer engineers into the IT field. No! we won't fix your printer!

Basically, with H1B quotas on the rise in the near future, you will really need to differentiate yourself because you'll be competing with India and China heavily. Learn how to actually program. I am shocked at how many "IT" people don't even know what a string is.

Next, work on your people skills. This is probably actually even more important than the math. Most tech people have no clue how to deal with people and are perfectly content sitting in a cube for the rest of their lives. Don't be like this. Management + technical knowledge = WIN.

Out of college, look to make about half what you think you should be making.

Also, don't limit yourself to security, it is important and make that your focus but learn some web database stuff because there is a much higher demand.

And be prepared to work when everyone else is at home enjoying the evening with their loved ones. When you're performing changes/upgrades to any networked system, it can't be done until everyone is gone for the day/weekend/holiday. You must have a girlfriend/wife/husband/etc who understands the restrictions of your job, otherwise your home life will be hell.

Good field to get into if you are willing to keep up with the latest technologies. Remember, you are only as good as your skill set and if you are willing to keep them updated, the rewards are many.

Originally Posted by willpower

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And be prepared to work when everyone else is at home enjoying the evening with their loved ones. When you're performing changes/upgrades to any networked system, it can't be done until everyone is gone for the day/weekend/holiday. You must have a girlfriend/wife/husband/etc who understands the restrictions of your job, otherwise your home life will be hell.

True this. Good thing the woman and I both work swings.

Originally Posted by willpower

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And be prepared to work when everyone else is at home enjoying the evening with their loved ones. When you're performing changes/upgrades to any networked system, it can't be done until everyone is gone for the day/weekend/holiday. You must have a girlfriend/wife/husband/etc who understands the restrictions of your job, otherwise your home life will be hell.

Not just that, but you have to work on your skills away from the office as well. You really have to find an area that you enjoy or you will hate it. I think that this is true if you want to be successful in anything though. People that do well work more than most.

it can't be worse than being a pharmacist, my original track.

i appreciate the input and advice.

should i work on getting a masters right out of college or work for a few years and hope my company helps pick up part of the tab.

Originally Posted by Blog Marley

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it can't be worse than being a pharmacist, my original track.

i appreciate the input and advice.

should i work on getting a masters right out of college or work for a few years and hope my company helps pick up part of the tab.

For what you want to do exp is worth more than paper.

Originally Posted by r...

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For what you want to do exp is worth more than paper.

So true, plus if you have fancier pieces of paper, the companies have to pay you more, which they sure as heck don't want to do.