If I ran Oxxford . . .

I suppose what I'm proposing is something akin to Black Fleece. Something that would exist alongside the traditional offerings as a way to attract those customers of tomorrow. It would need to be steeped in the company's history, a bit fashionable but not too trendy.

Part of Oxxford's problem is that it's selling quality and steadfastness at a luxury pricepoint, without a lot of luxury. People don't want to pay $200 for a plate of broccoli, no matter how good it is for you. Maybe bank presidents in the Midwest do, but that seems to be Oxxford's existing customer base, rather than the possible source of future expansion.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Click to expand...

Well, obviously we're all shooting without a gun or a target here since none of us has any idea about Oxxford, or its business. That said, if I have a choice between five customers that will buy one suit each this year and that I will have to pay to replace next year when they've moved to the next shiny thing, or one customer that will buy from me every year if I keep satisfying him with a quality product, I'll make more money in the long-run off the latter.

You're right about us guessing at what the "real" strategy at Oxxford is. I do think that they have traditionally sought repeat sale customers. Even though Cohen is a relatively young guy, he appears to target the repeat customer who is probably over forty.

I recall reading that when an interviewer asked Cohen who his primary competitor was he said it was Brioni. Both Oxxford and Brioni target businessmen with their suits and want to acquire and retain them as customers throughout their business careers.

Neither of these suit makers are making garments for the frivolous and fashion conscious buyer. Boss, Gucci, Prada, and Dolce and Gabanna are covering those markets. These players have huge marketing budgets and sell many more garments than Oxxford and Brioni.

I have intentionally excluded Armani because I think he is less subject to big variations in style from year to year. The only problem with Armani is value; one does not get what they pay for with Armani.

That leaves Brioni and Oxxford at the high end with low volume/high price points and Zegna, Cornelliani and Canali in the middle. Of course all of this addresses the RTW/MTM market and omits the niche players like Kiton, Borelli, Isaia, Attolini, Belvest etc.

Perhaps a good question would be how many men in any demographic group can name Oxxford or Brioni as a brand and tell you what type of product they produce. My guess is that only the repeat customers are the ones who really recognize these brands. Look at who is advertising in Esquire etc. It's not Oxxford and Brioni.

jcriswel

Really? I would think Brioni is one of the best-known luxury suitmakers out there. But maybe that's my skewed SF perception.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Click to expand...

I suppose what I'm proposing is something akin to Black Fleece. Something that would exist alongside the traditional offerings as a way to attract those future customers of tomorrow. It would need to be steeped in the company's history, a bit fashionable but not too trendy.

Part of Oxxford's problem is that it's selling quality and steadfastness at a luxury pricepoint, without a lot of luxury. People don't want to pay $200 for a plate of broccoli, no matter how good it is for you.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. I guess I don't see Oxxford as broccoli...and I'm not sure how well Black Fleece actually did on a stand-alone basis, except to drive interest in the main BB brands.

What I hear people saying is the Oxxford has lost its way principally by trying to chase this customer in the first place. I think something like this can be done, once the core brand is established again, but in only a very thoughtful and judicious way.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Click to expand...

No. I think that Brioni has been exactly right on the last iteration of Bond movies...for Brioni. Brioni is an Italian, high end fashion brand that lives and dies by its fashion cut. In certain business circles at certain levels, Brioni suits will be seen as inappropriate and lacking gravitas. Or rather, someone wearing Brioni suits will be seen as flashy and...by extension...untrustworthy.

Now, for a powerful tort lawyer, Brioni suits may be perfect. For a bank president...not so much. You don't want James Bond as the president of your local bank.

Again...I think you guys are missing the mark here. Oxxford is not Brioni. What works in marketing Brioni or in styling for Brioni, won't work for Oxxford. You'll destroy what's left of the brand.

I dunno; if you consider Brioni a 'fashion' brand, I can't imagine what high-end company other than Oxxford wouldn't also fall under the same distinction.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Click to expand...

I would think that, in this day and age, the 45-year-olds are buying Tom Ford, too. Used to be that you "grew into" things. Now everyone wants to be Forever 21. That's a huge obstacle for Oxxford. Even if they come up with a young, hip model, they still have to get rid of that old-man smell.

BTFY.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Click to expand...

I dunno; if you consider Brioni a 'fashion' brand, I can't imagine what high-end company other than Oxxford wouldn't also fall under the same distinction.
I think that your original premise was the correct one...there isn't one. That is the strength of the brand.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Click to expand...

I would love to see Oxxford consolidate their offerings, reducing the available models to four or five, all sharing a consistent design language. They should promoting the American suit, not the American suit trying to look Italian or English. I wouldn't mind a revisionist interpretation of what it means for a suit to look 'American', so long as they establish a coherent, recognizable style that the label can be meaningfully attached to.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Click to expand...

No. I think that Brioni has been exactly right on the last iteration of Bond movies...for Brioni. Brioni is an Italian, high end fashion brand that lives and dies by its fashion cut. In certain business circles at certain levels, Brioni suits will be seen as inappropriate and lacking gravitas. Or rather, someone wearing Brioni suits will be seen as flashy and...by extension...untrustworthy.

Now, for a powerful tort lawyer, Brioni suits may be perfect. For a bank president...not so much. You don't want James Bond as the president of your local bank.

Again...I think you guys are missing the mark here. Oxxford is not Brioni. What works in marketing Brioni or in styling for Brioni, won't work for Oxxford. You'll destroy what's left of the brand.

Ok, I just don't know what's left in the brand, if I was going to drop that amount of money, I would just save a bit more and go for top Savile row. I don't think Oxxford should copy anyone per se (I personally think RLPL is classy, not sure if it is by your standard), it needs to find a new place, I just don't think it can work as the way it is.

What's the average age of Oxxford's customer, are they constantly increasing year after year? Are people moving into that age range necessarily end up buying Oxxford, or they just end up shopping something else? I think those would be the question that needs to be answered before anything useful can be conclude (so yes, I am just speculating here).

Your argument sort of remind me of how Rolls Royce had become before BMW finally took it over (not that I am found on the new style, but at least it's quite alive right now).

P.S. Brioni is flashy? how about Kiton . What do you consider as conservative enough, BB?

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Click to expand...

Really? I would think Brioni is one of the best-known luxury suitmakers out there. But maybe that's my skewed SF perception.

I believe this Doc! When watching the Daniel Craig "Casino Royale" with male friends of mine, I have asked them if they knew that the dinner jacket Craig wears is a Brioni. The typical reaction is "Who is Brioni?"

jcriswel

All of Oxxford's problems solved...I guar-rahn-tee:
IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Click to expand...

Well, obviously we're all shooting without a gun or a target here since none of us has any idea about Oxxford, or its business. That said, if I have a choice between five customers that will buy one suit each this year and that I will have to pay to replace next year when they've moved to the next shiny thing, or one customer that will buy from me every year if I keep satisfying him with a quality product, I'll make more money in the long-run off the latter.

I don't see how other brands don't have repeat customers. I would think RL has strong repeat customer. Also from all the people I spoke to... Zegna and yes ARMANI also have very loyal customer base (i.e. friends who bought Armani last time is very likely to buy Armani again). It is my experience once someone found a suit fit that "works" fo them, they will just end up buying more of it for a long time until they "move up in the chain". I know I am talking about some crowd which is lack of imagination by SF standard, but all I want to say is I think you can still build customer loyality by doing something different than what Oxxford does now.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Click to expand...

I would love to see Oxxford consolidate their offerings, reducing the available models to four or five, all sharing a consistent design language.

Matt,

Perhaps this will help... the three Neiman Marcus stores in the Dallas area (one is actually in a suburb called Plano) only carry the Gibbons and the Radcliffe as RTW. Everything else is special order. I think Oxxford is actively marketing only the Gibbons, Radcliffe, and the Mason. The Crest, Manhattan, etc are either special order or very old models that are made only when requested.

jcriswel

Originally Posted by jcriswel

Click to expand...

I believe this Doc! When watching the Daniel Craig "Casino Royale" with male friends of mine, I have asked them if they knew that the dinner jacket Craig wears is a Brioni. The typical reaction is "Who is Brioni?"

jcriswel

Only the latest one is Tom Ford?

P.S. I think people do know about Brioni, not that many but at least over Kiton and Iasis for sure.

Originally Posted by clee1982

Click to expand...

I don't see how other brands don't have repeat customers. I would think RL has strong repeat customer. Also from all the people I spoke to... Zegna and yes ARMANI also have very loyal customer base (i.e. friends who bought Armani last time is very likely to buy Armani again). It is my experience once someone found a suit fit that "works" fo them, they will just end up buying more of it for a long time until they "move up in the chain". I know I am talking about some crowd which is lack of imagination by SF standard, but all I want to say is I think you can still build customer loyality by doing something different than what Oxxford does now.
Part of the issue is that everyone so far has been trying to fashion this brand to suit their own tastes, including me I suppose. Problem is that there is only so far that the brand can stretch without completely losing its meaning. There are markets beyond yourself... I stand by my first post. Oxxford needs to figure out who its core customer is and cater to them first. It can easily do that in ways that are fresher and more up to date without sacrificing its gravitas. If it wants to branch out from there in ways that don't undercut its brand image fine. But it isn't ever going to be Kiton or Zegna or Brioni and it shouldn't try to be, IMO; it doesn't need to be, IMO.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Click to expand...

Part of the issue is that everyone so far has been trying to fashion this brand to suit their own tastes, including me I suppose. Problem is that there is only so far that the brand can stretch without completely losing its meaning. There are markets beyond yourself...

I stand by my first post. Oxxford needs to figure out who its core customer is and cater to them first. It can easily do that in ways that are fresher and more up to date without sacrificing its gravitas. If it wants to branch out from there in ways that don't undercut its brand image fine. But it isn't ever going to be Kiton or Zegna or Brioni and it shouldn't try to be, IMO; it doesn't need to be, IMO.

I agree with you on this one. I do think Oxxford needs to branch out soon enough before its customer start, "diminishing"... out of natural cause.