On things they smoke over @ GM

Originally Posted by CTGuy

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weak.
+1

Originally Posted by Christofuh

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Future sporty Opels can be rolled into Chevy line-up. So the departure of Saturn is no great loss.
Whatever 1 or 2 half-decent models Pontiac (read: rebadged Holdens) used to offer could find new home @ Chevy as well.

They are trying to lose Opel as well. FIAT is eying it pretty hard. I believe that would include Vauxhal as well.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090513/...ge/as_china_gm

Meanwhile, GM plans to sell cars made by the People's Republic of China, not the United Auto Workers, in the good ole U.S. of A.

I agree that keeping GMC is the stupidest thing ever, unless it's basically 'free' to keep and there is no value to selling it. In the early 90s there were rumors that GMC would be shuttered and merged with Chevrolet trucks, however then the SUV boom hit. At one time, GMC was a heavier-duty truck (or, at least they had that image) but that had also died by the mid 80s' probably.

Originally Posted by ratboycom

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They are trying to lose Opel as well. FIAT is eying it pretty hard. I believe that would include Vauxhal as well.

Opel actually is doing reasonably well.

Originally Posted by crazyquik

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090513/...ge/as_china_gm

Meanwhile, GM plans to sell cars made by the People's Republic of China, not the United Auto Workers, in the good ole U.S. of A.

I agree that keeping GMC is the stupidest thing ever, unless it's basically 'free' to keep and there is no value to selling it. In the early 90s there were rumors that GMC would be shuttered and merged with Chevrolet trucks, however then the SUV boom hit. At one time, GMC was a heavier-duty truck (or, at least they had that image) but that had also died by the mid 80s' probably.

Nothing like selling out. Ridiculous. I hope someone starts up another car company with just one model car and truck that is made in the US.

Originally Posted by tiecollector

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Nothing like selling out. Ridiculous. I hope someone starts up another car company with just one model car and truck that is made in the US.
And where would this someone find people stupid enough to fund this idea? Haven't you heard, the UAW is still hungry and looking for a new host?

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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Roger Penske is also mulling a bid to buy Saturn.

Roger Penske of "the Penske file?"

Originally Posted by A Y

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Buick products for the Chinese market are also much more interesting than what we get in the US.
Hmmm, let's see. U.S. car makers have to have 'more interesting' cars for the export market to adequately compete. Imports do very well in the U.S. market, so U.S. car companies continue to sell the boring models here...hmmmm...

The offer made by the head of FixItAgainTony a.k.a. FIAT for Opel didn't exactly get anybody moist, from what I gather.
In terms of Saturn, since when does a brand until recently known for producing underpowered plastic atrocities acquire a coveted enough status to warrant a 3-rd party investor $$$ rescue ?
How could the dealers possibly tempt outside players to come in on the buy-out deal ?
Moreover, for sale is a mere division of GM. Not as though the buyers are getting their hands on the whole company.
This entire thing looks pretty foggy to me. When VW bought Bentley, BMW got RR, Tata picked up Jag - things seemed a fair bit clear-cut.
Whereas with the Saturn buyout offer I'm seeing shades of L'Affair Cerberus Capital Management

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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This simply begs to be quoted.

Who would've ever guessed?

I don't think Buick is more popular than Honda, Nissan, Audi, VW for personal purchases in China. Just it's more a kind of "official" cars (same as Audi A6) purchased and used by the governments / communist officials, with political factors behind. This is similar to China's purchase of Boeing and AirBus in turn being used as its political chips dealing with US and EU.

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

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And where would this someone find people stupid enough to fund this idea? Haven't you heard, the UAW is still hungry and looking for a new host?

Don Panoz.

Dr. Don.

Made his fortune off the technology in the transdermal nicotine patch. Bought Road Atlanta (racetrack) and a hotel/resort/winery in Georgia. And built a race team to compete at Le Mans. And his son built a single-model car company.



Panoz has always sourced Ford powertrains though. No love for the General

Yawn. Re-skinned Rustangs with Ford instrument pack.
And they should get the **** out with that MSRP of theirs.

Originally Posted by Christofuh

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Yawn. Re-skinned Rustangs with Ford instrument pack.

No.

But I will agree the MSRP is overinflated.

Buick is indeed one of the largest brands in the auto industry in China. It is owned by Shanghai GM, which is a 50-50 joint venture between GM and, essentially, the Chinese government. GM had to bend over for the right to enter the Chinese market, and one of the things they did was essentially transfer over a whole bunch of technology they'd earned through the years into this JV. Having that technology and the blessing of the Chinese government is a large reason they're tops in the market.

However, they're not necessarily making ground-breaking vehicles there. Though their Chinese R&D facility is getting up to speed, their biggest seller is the Buick Regal. It's almost a direct copy of the vehicle that is known as kind of a shitbox here. I think there's a new version out this year, but even that is an Opel clone.

Once upon a time, I read that they were even slowly giving up equity in the JV, but I'm not able to verify that in a meaningful way. Still, though GM made a smart investment in China, it hardly makes them a groundbreaking, innovative company... just the one that was most willing (most desperate?) to give up a lot for the Chinese market entry.

Originally Posted by Christofuh

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Yawn. Re-skinned Rustangs with Ford instrument pack.
And they should get the **** out with that MSRP of theirs.

Not at all. The Panoz cars are built around around an aluminum chassis originally designed by Tim Costin (brother of Cosworth co-founder Mike Costin) for an Irish company, with a hydroformed aluminum body. No Ford cart axle suspension either, but proper double wishbones all around. Just some of the interior bits and the drivetrain are Ford.

The Esparante really isn't my thing: too big, too heavy, way too much motor to be fun. But the original AIV was an interesting car. Would've been more interesting with a small BMW straight six or someone's high-revving four-pot than with the 4.9L iron pushrod lump they used, that would've been on my radar screen for sure.

For a handbuilt-in-the-West car, the MSRP isn't out of line, either. The Lotus Evora will be cheaper (and more useful, and more appropriately motored) but until that there wasn't anything comparable here. And Lotus will sell a whole lot more Evoras in their first year than Danny Panoz will sell Esparantes in the car's entire run, so the Panoz has exclusivity going for it.