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Shaq Gets Traded to the Suns
- Thread starter landho
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lawyerdad
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While there's certainly a potential for this to work out for Phoenix, as a Lakers fan I find this amusing on a number of levels -- especially with the Smush Parker wrinkle, which I did not pick up on in yesterday's rumors.
landho
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Yeah--I'm at work right now, so I can't really write a detailed comment, but a few things:
(1) As silly as the trade seems, it makes sense for Phoenix on several levels. That said, I still think it's a bad trade and that they could have found a better version of Shaq out there (i.e., a large shot-blocking presence).
(2) While I expected the Gasol trade to set off a chain reaction in the West, I didn't think it would begin this quickly, nor did I think it would involve Shaq and the Suns.
(3) As a Lakers fan myself, I ruined three pairs of nice shoes (by vomiting all over them) watching the Kwame and Smush show over the course of the playoffs the last two seasons. I was ecstatic to see Fisher come back, who has six times the basketball IQ that Smush does. (How many times did you see Smush take a pull-up three for no reason in the playoffs?) That said, given that I hate the Heat (for obvious reasons), I was happy in a poison-tree kind of way to see that they were dumb enough to pick up Smush and pay him $4.6 million a year (est.). Last I heard, his agent was refusing my possibility of a buyout--probably because he knows that Smush will never ever see anything close to that kind of money ever again. (The Lakers were paying him only $800 thousand, so you could at least justify his presence there financially.)
(1) As silly as the trade seems, it makes sense for Phoenix on several levels. That said, I still think it's a bad trade and that they could have found a better version of Shaq out there (i.e., a large shot-blocking presence).
(2) While I expected the Gasol trade to set off a chain reaction in the West, I didn't think it would begin this quickly, nor did I think it would involve Shaq and the Suns.
(3) As a Lakers fan myself, I ruined three pairs of nice shoes (by vomiting all over them) watching the Kwame and Smush show over the course of the playoffs the last two seasons. I was ecstatic to see Fisher come back, who has six times the basketball IQ that Smush does. (How many times did you see Smush take a pull-up three for no reason in the playoffs?) That said, given that I hate the Heat (for obvious reasons), I was happy in a poison-tree kind of way to see that they were dumb enough to pick up Smush and pay him $4.6 million a year (est.). Last I heard, his agent was refusing my possibility of a buyout--probably because he knows that Smush will never ever see anything close to that kind of money ever again. (The Lakers were paying him only $800 thousand, so you could at least justify his presence there financially.)
landho
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i cant believe the suns went with this trade. he doesnt fit in their offensive scheme at all. i mean how is shaq going to run up and down the court with the fast break offense?Originally Posted by Omar1223
Briefly--
If the Suns are smart, Diaw will start at PF and allow them to run their normal offense. Diaw is actually a much better playmaker than Marion. Shaq will come off the bench the majority of the games, but against teams in which his presence will make a big difference (not coincidentally, the Lakers, Spurs, and Mavs), he will start, giving them additionally flexibility with their roster manipulation. In this way Shaq will play around 12 to 18 minutes a night against weaker teams and teams that present a bad matchup to him (including the Warriors) but around 28 to 34 minutes against teams that he matches up well against, allowing him to play around 22 (or so) minutes a night, allowing him not to wear down so much and keeping him fresh (kind of) for the playoffs.
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This trade is not as bad for the Suns as some people are making it out to be. Marion and Stoudamire could not co-exist, so one of them had to go -- might as well be the shorter and older one. Stoudamire can return to his natural PF position. And the playoffs invariably become a half-court game with an emphasis on defense, which the Suns have been lacking in recent years.
lawyerdad
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I agree with landho's and AC's comments. This could be a disaster for the Suns, but it could work out pretty well, too. Clearly, they'd decided that keeping both Stoudamire and Marion wasn't going to work. And as always, when it's clear you're committed to moving someone that diminishes their trade value somewhat.
A well-rested and motivated Shaq playing a complementary rather than a focal point role could still be a significant difference-maker in the playoffs. Of course, he could remain fat and ineffective as well, but while the deal's obviously something of a gamble for Phoenix, I don't think it's an indefensible one.
A well-rested and motivated Shaq playing a complementary rather than a focal point role could still be a significant difference-maker in the playoffs. Of course, he could remain fat and ineffective as well, but while the deal's obviously something of a gamble for Phoenix, I don't think it's an indefensible one.
Bradford
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As a Suns fan, I am thrilled by this news! Although I've never been a huge Shaq fan, I will give him tremendous credit for the fact that every team he's been with has played for a title and 2 of the 3 have won.
Trade talks regarding Shawn Marion have been ongoing for several years and as good as he is in the regular season, he is a constant disappointment in the playoffs.
Shaq and Stat together could be an unbeatable combo in the paint!
Trade talks regarding Shawn Marion have been ongoing for several years and as good as he is in the regular season, he is a constant disappointment in the playoffs.
Shaq and Stat together could be an unbeatable combo in the paint!
whacked
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As a Suns fan, I am thrilled by this news! Although I've never been a huge Shaq fan, I will give him tremendous credit for the fact that every team he's been with has played for a title and 2 of the 3 have won.Originally Posted by Bradford
Trade talks regarding Shawn Marion have been ongoing for several years and as good as he is in the regular season, he is a constant disappointment in the playoffs.
Shaq and Stat together could be an unbeatable combo in the paint!
Have you watched Shaq play in the last 2 years?
Saucemaster
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Alright, here's the thing: this entire deal only makes sense if you think that it improves the Suns defensively. Lord knows they needed no help in the offense.
Shaq probably doesn't hurt them offensively, at least not immediately. Between Amare getting to play the 4 and Diaw seeing more minutes, I imagine that Marion's numbers will be largely absorbed. I *do* wonder about offensive rebounding--Shaq will still be lumbering toward halfcourt by the time the first shot is off in Phoenix's offense--but assume for the moment that Diaw and Amare can carry the load there.
Has anyone else been watching Shaq on defense for the past two years? He's HORRIBLE. He has a really hard time avoiding fouls, and while he never gave it much effort, he doesn't even get off the ground going for rebounds anymore. It's painful to watch. In the meantime, the Suns give up the closest thing they have to a lockdown defender in Marion, and in return they get, effectively, a very tall sandbag to plant in the middle of the paint. Plus, if Nash has one glaring defensive weakness (okay, he has a couple), it's his inability to contain the opposing point guard and keep him from penetrating. This is exactly the situation where Shaq is constantly called for fouls.
As a Lakers fan, this makes me pretty happy. No more Marion hounding Kobe, and between Kobe (and Fish, for that matter) driving the basket, and Gasol and Bynum in the post, there's no way Shaq has anything less than four fouls by halftime.
Shaq probably doesn't hurt them offensively, at least not immediately. Between Amare getting to play the 4 and Diaw seeing more minutes, I imagine that Marion's numbers will be largely absorbed. I *do* wonder about offensive rebounding--Shaq will still be lumbering toward halfcourt by the time the first shot is off in Phoenix's offense--but assume for the moment that Diaw and Amare can carry the load there.
Has anyone else been watching Shaq on defense for the past two years? He's HORRIBLE. He has a really hard time avoiding fouls, and while he never gave it much effort, he doesn't even get off the ground going for rebounds anymore. It's painful to watch. In the meantime, the Suns give up the closest thing they have to a lockdown defender in Marion, and in return they get, effectively, a very tall sandbag to plant in the middle of the paint. Plus, if Nash has one glaring defensive weakness (okay, he has a couple), it's his inability to contain the opposing point guard and keep him from penetrating. This is exactly the situation where Shaq is constantly called for fouls.
As a Lakers fan, this makes me pretty happy. No more Marion hounding Kobe, and between Kobe (and Fish, for that matter) driving the basket, and Gasol and Bynum in the post, there's no way Shaq has anything less than four fouls by halftime.
Bradford
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First off all Sauce, Raja Bell is our lockdown defender on Kobe...
Second - here's the article on the local paper's website... Shaq sounds motivated. In fact, he's apparently already on an airplane.
Second - here's the article on the local paper's website... Shaq sounds motivated. In fact, he's apparently already on an airplane.
Shaq, Stat, Nash, LB, Hill and Diaw sounds like a pretty good rotation to me!Shaq to Nash: 'I will not let you down'
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 6, 2008 11:53 AM
Shaquille O'Neal is on his way to Phoenix, literally.
O'Neal's physical exam is the only prerequisite for Phoenix's acquisition of O'Neal for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to take place today. O'Neal is on a flight to the Valley this morning and is scheduled to arrive midday.
The expectation is that O'Neal will pass the physical and a trade call will be placed with the league to consummate the deal by the end of the day. O'Neal could even be in attendance at US Airways Center tonight for Phoenix's 7 p.m. game with New Orleans.
Although O'Neal has been out with a hip injury, there is a belief that he will pass the physical because he is in great condition and is said to be at 312 pounds (down from his listed 325 pounds) with low body fat.
He seems to be a motivated player too, having jumped on a plane this morning after talking to several of the Suns, such as Steve Nash and AmarÃStoudemire, on Tuesday night.
"I will not let you down," O'Neal told Nash on the phone.
O'Neal's soon-to-be former teammates are in Detroit today.
"Nothing has been completed," Heat coach and President Pat Riley told the Miami Herald today. "These things have backed up before."
The Herald, which broke the trade's news Tuesday, also quoted Heat star Dwyane Wade, saying, "I have no reaction because I don't know the truth. Until that time comes, this is the NBA. I'm not surprised at anything."
Phoenix will have to sign another player after completing the trade because it will be one man shy of the league's 13-man roster minimum. Richie Frahm would likely be a possibility because he spent training camp and preseason with the Suns and was recently with the Clippers.
O'Neal's former Lakers teammate, Kobe Bryant, was quoted in today's Los Angeles Times as saying, "I know he likes warm weather. Other than that, I don't think too much about it."
Steve B.
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I dunno Brad, I think this is a horrible trade for Phoenix. Shaq has nothing left, and it takes the Suns into a completley different direction than the one they've been very successful in. Maybe Marion was so disgruntled they had to do it..
chronoaug
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I came back from the bar late last night and was just like "what the ****". I mean, i remember them talking about it a day or two ago but i never thought it'd happen. I figured the suns would deal marion, but probably for a rotation player and an expiring contract.
I mean, the only chance this works is if shaq actually puts forth a lot of effort like last playoffs in the loss to the bulls where he showed some life. I mean, the suns don't need all 5 players to sprint the court for fastbreaks. Kurt Thomas didn't do it. If the initial fast break doesn't work, then you have shaq plodding down to draw attention and free up others. Amare will have a lot more open looks with shaq on the block. Also, they mainly just want shaq to play against the mavs, spurs and lakers in the playoffs as amare and pat burke aren't stopping bynum/pau/duncan/yao/or anyone.
2 years after this season on the books at $20mil is pretty rough though. I guess their thought is that a lot of teams want shaq (nets, mavs and others were really close to dealing for him). If it doesn't work this year, they can trade him next season or give it one more year to see if it works. In 2 years, nash might not be quite the same player, shaq will be off the books, and they can rebuild with cap room around amare/diaw/barbosa who will still be under contract.
It's pretty good for the heat though. I mean, shaq just stopped caring this season and now they get a starting pg and sf. Banks isn't as bad as his tenure with the suns will make you believe. He's pretty talented but the suns just overpaid and then barbosa stepped up so they didn't have room. The heat need to run earl barron and alexander johnson more. Johnson usually does well when he gets minutes like last season on the griz. I don't know. Definitely weird.
I mean, the only chance this works is if shaq actually puts forth a lot of effort like last playoffs in the loss to the bulls where he showed some life. I mean, the suns don't need all 5 players to sprint the court for fastbreaks. Kurt Thomas didn't do it. If the initial fast break doesn't work, then you have shaq plodding down to draw attention and free up others. Amare will have a lot more open looks with shaq on the block. Also, they mainly just want shaq to play against the mavs, spurs and lakers in the playoffs as amare and pat burke aren't stopping bynum/pau/duncan/yao/or anyone.
2 years after this season on the books at $20mil is pretty rough though. I guess their thought is that a lot of teams want shaq (nets, mavs and others were really close to dealing for him). If it doesn't work this year, they can trade him next season or give it one more year to see if it works. In 2 years, nash might not be quite the same player, shaq will be off the books, and they can rebuild with cap room around amare/diaw/barbosa who will still be under contract.
It's pretty good for the heat though. I mean, shaq just stopped caring this season and now they get a starting pg and sf. Banks isn't as bad as his tenure with the suns will make you believe. He's pretty talented but the suns just overpaid and then barbosa stepped up so they didn't have room. The heat need to run earl barron and alexander johnson more. Johnson usually does well when he gets minutes like last season on the griz. I don't know. Definitely weird.
Saucemaster
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First off all Sauce, Raja Bell is our lockdown defender on Kobe...Originally Posted by Bradford
Second - here's the article on the local paper's website... Shaq sounds motivated. In fact, he's apparently already on an airplane.
Shaq, Stat, Nash, LB, Hill and Diaw sounds like a pretty good rotation to me!
You're right about Bell, and I'm not sure why I forgot about him, but Bell alone isn't going to cut it. I stand by what I said--I think the Shaq trade hurts the Suns defensively (which is where they needed help most), and I don't see that he really brings anything else to the table. I don't know, maybe it's possible that he experiences some sort of rejuvenation and starts playing like he was even three or four years ago. That would be amazing. I just don't see it happening.
Bradford
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C'mon guys, we here in Phoenix know how well it works to sign veteran players...
Look how well the Suns did in signing Penny Hardaway a few years ago, the D-Backs with resigning Randy Johnson last year, Jeremy Roenick's return to the Coyotes and especially, the success that the Cardinals saw with Emmitt Smith running the ball.
Oh crap - you guys are right
We just mortgaged our future on a broken-down 36-year-old center. Well, if it doesn't work, we can't say it's because we didn't have a big man
![icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif](https://www.styleforum.net/images/smilies/icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif)
Look how well the Suns did in signing Penny Hardaway a few years ago, the D-Backs with resigning Randy Johnson last year, Jeremy Roenick's return to the Coyotes and especially, the success that the Cardinals saw with Emmitt Smith running the ball.
Oh crap - you guys are right
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