Johan Santana traded to the Mets

Either deal from the AL East was far better than what the Mets gave up. Maybe neither the Red Sox or the Yankees were willing to go up to 20 at 6 years with Santana, and he opted out... That is the only logical explanation I can think of.

The Red Sox never needed him, so I think they were in it just to mess with the Yankees. The Yankees definitely needed him, but were too principled to bend over. The Mets want to win a world series right now, and this his their only shot at it... so they had to make the necessary moves.

Originally Posted by whacked

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"Potential" is the key word here. Santana, like Pedro Martinez or Roger Clemens (pre-roid, may be?), is an once-a-generation talent AND is still in the middle of his best years. Meanwhile, a handful of young pitchers get that "future Cy Youngs" tag every couple year or so; the majority of them don't live up to the hype, for whatever reasons.

That's irrelevant because Minnesota couldn't afford to sign him anyways. What you would be determining was whether ONE YEAR of Santana was worth the rights to the players you're discussing. I think the answer, in all cases, is yes. All of the trade packages proposed are worth more than one year of Santana, but the Red Sox and Yankees proposals were better. The only question, of course, is whether they were actually on the table or if it was just speculation.

^ Fair enough, except...

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

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That's irrelevant because Minnesota couldn't afford to sign him anyways.

They could have had, but chose not to and splurge on Morneau and Cuddyer. Good for them, I guess, but a dominant starter year-in, year-out like Santana is worth more than those two combined and then some IMHO.

I actually like the Twins earlier moves quite a bit: getting Delmon Young for Matt Garza, signed Adam Everett/Mike Lamb etc. And Liriano will be back next year. They probably figured out that dominant pitching + snappy hitting don't work every year.

Originally Posted by whacked

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^ Fair enough, except... They could have had, but chose not to and splurge on Morneau and Cuddyer. Good for them, I guess, but a dominant starter year-in, year-out like Santana is worth more than those two combined and then some IMHO. I actually like the Twins earlier moves quite a bit: getting Delmon Young for Matt Garza, signed Adam Everett/Mike Lamb etc. And Liriano will be back next year. They probably figured out that dominant pitching + snappy hitting don't work every year.
Honestly, I think Santana is going to have physical problems going forward. He's thrown a lot of innings and he's liable to break down Pedro-style. The Mets may get a few good seasons out of him but I doubt he'll last all six years of the contract. I'd rather have young sluggers locked down for relatively little money going forward.

Speaking as a Phillies fan, argh.



Hey, we picked up Pedro friggin' Feliz. No thread for that?!

Of the Mets, Sox, and Yankees, I'm not surprised Santana ended up with the Mets, as they had the greatest need. As others have pointed out, I am surprised at the return package, particularly given the rumored demands the Twins made on both the Sox and Yanks.

OTOH, the Twins are generally very good judges of talent. Perhaps they see a lot of potential that we lay people do not.

Originally Posted by JBZ

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Of the Mets, Sox, and Yankees, I'm not surprised Santana ended up with the Mets, as they had the greatest need. As others have pointed out, I am surprised at the return package, particularly given the rumored demands the Twins made on both the Sox and Yanks.

OTOH, the Twins are generally very good judges of talent. Perhaps they see a lot of potential that we lay people do not.

Terry Ryan was the master at turning who dat prospects into bankable players. Hopefully whoever in the organization was evaluating the talent then can fill Smith in the same way.

As good as a writeup as you'll see on the trade:
http://www.aarongleeman.com/2008_01_...47369862482749

I would have liked Hughes/Cabrera over this bunch. I don't think Ellsbury is going to turn out to be an All-Star. His offensive value is too tied up in his batting average. However, he would have been ready to go now, Gomez needs a few years.

Originally Posted by whacked

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^ Fair enough, except...



They could have had, but chose not to and splurge on Morneau and Cuddyer. Good for them, I guess, but a dominant starter year-in, year-out like Santana is worth more than those two combined and then some IMHO.

I actually like the Twins earlier moves quite a bit: getting Delmon Young for Matt Garza, signed Adam Everett/Mike Lamb etc. And Liriano will be back next year. They probably figured out that dominant pitching + snappy hitting don't work every year.

Twins have boatloads of cash available this year--they're 10 million below last year's opening day payroll and are moving into the new stadium. I'm not saying either the Santana deal or the Hunter deal was good for them, because those long contracts on aging stars are a little ridiculous, but they needed to fill that hole. $10 million on a center fielder or 3B would have made this a great offseason for the Twins.

Originally Posted by nyf

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I would have liked Hughes/Cabrera over this bunch. I don't think Ellsbury is going to turn out to be an All-Star. His offensive value is too tied up in his batting average. However, he would have been ready to go now, Gomez needs a few years.
Ellsbury is a really young player. His power will develop in time. He also hits at Fenway, which means he doesn't need all that much power to hit a lot of home runs. Hell, Dustin Pedroia can hit home runs at Fenway. The Metrodome is much the same way, although I'm not sure how the outdoor stadium will respond. I think Ellsbury has the potential to be a Willie McGee/Tim Raines style player down the line with speed in between those two and a bit more power. If Hughes was on the table, though, especially with Cabrera, who might not have the upside of Ellsbury but is a very good player already, they should have taken it.

As a life-long Twins fan, my immediate reaction to the trade was "WTF?"

How could they let the best pitcher in baseball go for these four nobodies? But after a little more reflection I'm willing to give the new GM some time.

The Twins have a damn good record of developing prospects into stars; maybe not consistent All-Stars but stars nonetheless. And they've have a lot better luck in trading for talent than their football counterparts the Vikings. (See Herschel Walker.)

This feels a little like 1989 when the Twins sent Cy Young winner Frank Viola to the Mets (deja vu?) for five "prospects": closer Rick Aguilera, Kevin Tapani and David West, Jack Savage and Tim Drummond. Aguilera and Tapani played major roles in the Twins 1991 World Series win, and although West turned out to be a disappointment he was an inning killer for the Twins for awhile.

The Twins also unloaded locker room cancer A.J. Pierzinski in 2003 to the Giants for Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano, and Boof Bonser. Nathan has become a stud closer and if Liriano's recovery from Tommy John surgery is successful he could become another Cy Young winner.

And then there was the 1998 trade of Chuckk Knobloch by the Twins to the Yankees for Brian Buchanan, Cristian Guzman, Eric Milton, Danny Mota, and cash. Guzman, while never living up to the hype, gave the Twins some good years.

It sucks losing Santana. It also sucks losing Torii Hunter. But I'll reserve judgment. For awhile.

^ Pssssh. Down with the Twins!

^ yeah, okay. I think the Sox are more yesterday than the Twins, though.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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^ yeah, okay. I think the Sox are more yesterday than the Twins, though.

True as it may be.....

I got nothin.

I think the White Sox are a lock for 3rd in the AL Central. For what it's worth, they're also probably good enough to take first in at least 2 NL divisions...

Originally Posted by briancl

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I think the White Sox are a lock for 3rd in the AL Central. For what it's worth, they're also probably good enough to take first in at least 2 NL divisions...

I want Aaron Rowand back