Where Do Florsheim Imperial Shoes Rate?

Originally Posted by PhiloVance

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How about these? Also listed as cordovan, do you agree? I've been interested in the Kenmoor for some time, but all I'm finding in size 10s on ebay are triple e sizes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=001

Those look like they could be shell. But it's hard to tell without a bigger shot of the hinge.

Originally Posted by grimslade

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Those look like they could be shell. But it's hard to tell without a bigger shot of the hinge.


With those dimensions you would think a size 10.5 person could fit these?
Length =12 11/16" & the width @ its widest point = 4 7/16" is more like 11E.

It's possible. But with the sole extension and the 360-degree welt, it's hard to say with confidence. Obviously, it also depends a lot on your particular foot shape.

Originally Posted by grimslade

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It's possible. But with the sole extension and the 360-degree welt, it's hard to say with confidence. Obviously, it also depends a lot on your particular foot shape.


Please elaborate Grimslade - does the 360 welt prevent stretching? Or you meet the volume inside?

Originally Posted by meister

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Please elaborate Grimslade - does the 360 welt prevent stretching? Or you meet the volume inside?

While a great many eBay sellers give the outside measurements of the shoes, this is a completely unreliable method of determining the inside size. That's because the amount of sole extension, the amount of heel extension, the thickness of the leather, etc. can vary from model to model.

Pretty much what Teacher said. 12.5" of sole may equate to more or less usable inside length in the shoe. At the extremes, picture this shoe next to a bespoke G&G offering with a canted heel, no welting around the heel and very little sole extension in the front. If those two shoes measured equal distances from the back of the heel to the foot of the bottom of the sole, the one you linked to would likely wear at least a size smaller in practice. I don't know if I'm being clear. But the point is, outside measurements are not directly comparable from model to model owing to variables like sole extension and heel size.

To try to be a bit clearer... a 12 1/2" outsole would be a size 11 in a close-trimmed single sole shoe such as EG. A 12 1/2" outsole in a Florsheim Kenmoor might be a size 9.5. As others have said above, the inside dimension is what counts because inside the shoe is where the foot has to go.

Originally Posted by Teacher

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While a great many eBay sellers give the outside measurements of the shoes, this is a completely unreliable method of determining the inside size. That's because the amount of sole extension, the amount of heel extension, the thickness of the leather, etc. can vary from model to model.

Is it possible that these are an AA fitting with such a width /length inside outside

Sellers detaisl below:combo?


shoes on bottom are 12.5 inches long
width 4.5 inches at widest part
inside 12.5 inches long
tagged size stamped on inside of New old stock shoe says 10 1/2 A.

They can't be 12.5 along the outsole and also be 12.5 inside. Ask for clarification, and yes, they are "A" width.

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Among Florsheim Imperials, there are 2 different animals here, one is current and the other is vintage.

Currently sold line Kenmoor is $225 retail and is probably way overpriced. They are not bad shoes, they are still leather lined and double leather full welted soles. But the workmanship and the surface leathers arent that great and they don't make shell cordovan at all, of course. At $225 there are better values out there.

Vintage Kenmoors are a beautiful beast. There is quite a range, my guess is that most of the vintage ones you see on ebay are from the late 60s to the late 80s, I don't think they are much older than that, no matter how old school Leave It To Beaver they look. The most desirable are the Kenmoors with full flat nail heels with V cleat, and 5 nails in the waist. There are other, more recent variations missing either the V cleat or the nails or both, but there are plenty of the every era to go around. Personally I'm a big fan and I think, due to their ubiquity on ebay, they are a great, great value, especially in shell cordovan. I also think the aesthetic is coming back into vogue - see Thom Browne, which is about as bleeding edge as you can get in adult men's fashion.

I'm bumping this thread with a question. I recently purchased a pair of vintage Florsheim Imperials. They have the V Cleat and the five nails Tarmac references. Does anyone have a timeline of when Florsheim introduced the various aspects of these shoes. I would like to get a sense of when these were produced.

Originally Posted by meister

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Is it possible that these are an AA fitting with such a width /length inside outside

Sellers detaisl below:combo?


shoes on bottom are 12.5 inches long
width 4.5 inches at widest part
inside 12.5 inches long
tagged size stamped on inside of New old stock shoe says 10 1/2 A.

That doesn't seem right to me. I am not an expert though.

I'm bumping this thread rather than starting a new one. This seems to be the best existing thread for info on Florsheims.

Anyone have any pointers on the sizing? 10D is my true size in both shoes and boots (wearing the right socks). Anyone have experience with Imperial longwings in sizes other than their norm? Basically wondering if a 10.5C could possibly work, or a 10E, respectively.

Appreciate everyones input as always.

Originally Posted by The Deacon

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The current imperials are made in India at the same factory as JC Penney and Bostonians. If you like the F$225 Florsheim imperial wingtip save $150 and buy the JC Penney. It's the exact same shoe.

hmmm, just because they're made in the same factory doesn't mean they're made to the same specs... I know it's implied because there's probably a consistency in terms of the quality range but the design and materials could be completely different even if it's the same labor. Just want to point that out. If they're relabeled that's different.

I found the discussion of the Stafford/JCPenney's being the same as Kenmoors pretty interesting.

Thought it might be worth going to Penney's for the first time since my parents dragged me there kicking and screaming back in 7th grade for church clothes in the early 1980s and buying a pair if it were true!

I went to the Florsheim outlet in Wrentham, MA and asked WTF? Really, you sell Kenmoors at JCP?

Guy there said that Staffords look like Kenmoors but don't have the same interior and have lesser exterior components. They are made in the same factory but by the Stacy Adams people division of Florsheim and are not in many ways the same as current Florsheim Kenmoors.

For what that's worth. I know he was a Florsheim salesman, but they know me there as a clearance customer who frequently comes in and scoops last-pair Imperials for the deep discount + AAA 10% on top. In other words, they like me. Were they lying? Dunno.

Oh, re: width. Kenmoors are built on a wider last than the other, lesser wingtips. I wear a 9D in most Florsheims, but I'd have to go narrower if I bought in on the Kenmoors.

I ended up buying a couple pairs of the lesser 9D "Jefferson" calfskin wingtips in oxblood and black for less than the "Stafford Kenmoors" and if they wear OK and I find it an enduring style I like...maybe I upgrade to Kenmoors or even go upscale from Florsheim. However, if you buy 2 pairs ($20 discount on 2nd pair) on clearance and claim AAA discount...you can afford to wear out/resole/toss.

Also, DSW sometimes has discounts + sales on Imperials (right now...40% off lowest marked clearance price). Sometimes the pickings are slim. But you might run into a pair for $50-$80 that you like...