iPhone finally here, the Western Civilization is saved

Is this still an iPhone thread? It's unlocked. I'm reviewing contract options now, and once again am amazed at all the Europeans who think their mobile systems are so much better than those in the US, land of unlimited nights and weekends.

Originally Posted by tiger02

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Is this still an iPhone thread? It's unlocked. I'm reviewing contract options now, and once again am amazed at all the Europeans who think their mobile systems are so much better than those in the US, land of unlimited nights and weekends.

It's quality, not quantity that makes their networks (and phones) better.

Do you think manufacturers make better phones everywhere else because they don't like Americans? Or do you think they do it because other countries have the more sophisticated networks to support the higher priced technology?

Originally Posted by briancl

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It's quality, not quantity that makes their networks (and phones) better.

Do you think manufacturers make better phones everywhere else because they don't like Americans? Or do you think they do it because other countries have the more sophisticated networks to support the higher priced technology?
I think 'other' countries (including the one where I live) have overpriced networks to support government approved "national champions" aka bloated near-socialist monopolies. You?

Originally Posted by tiger02

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I think 'other' countries (including the one where I live) have overpriced networks to support government approved "national champions" aka bloated near-socialist monopolies. You?

So you mean you've found a case where socialism breeds a better product than capitalism? I'm assuming you mean the US is the more capitalist of the bunch, yet the US has the most mediocre phones when it comes to technology (compared to EU and Japan.. Again, I can only assume these contexts from the previous bit of conversation).

My explaination for this is that the US has the worst networks in terms of sophistication (bandwidth per device), so phone mfg's can't pack a bunch of high profit gadgets into the phone (the gadgets need bandwidth to be worthwhile to the consumer), and therefore they focus on markets with faster networks. The fact is, all of the other major wireless markets have had the equivalent of "3G" for years, whereas the US barely has it deployed in major metro areas. There are many reasons for this, including geographic, but regardless of why the US networks are slow, the fact remains that they are slower than the rest of the world.

I'm sure if the US had the fastest and most capable networks, the phone mfg's would be pounding at the door to sell their top of the line phones here. In reality, since our networks lag behind our JP and EU counterparts, the phones imported into the US are usually a generation or two behind.

Unfortunately the US will never catch up to Japan and Europe in terms of wireless communications, internet bandwidth, and etc. until we

A: Get rid of or re-prioritize the FCC.

B: Find a way to cover our vast expanses of landmass with a network as efficiently as you can in a MUCH smaller country, like Japan, or even the EU.

People sometimes don't realize that the entire area of all the EU countries is only about a third of the area of the US, and that the entirety of Japan is smaller than the State of California. This is a major factor in network coverage, speed, and price. And one that without new technology - we cannot, I fear, overcome.

Actually what I mean is that I don't need all those "high profit gadgets." I need a phone. If I want a high profit gadget, I'll buy one. But if I want to talk to people for less than $0.18 (Hungary) or $0.34 (Italy) per minute, I have to move to the US. So no, I'm saying that capitalism has bred a better product for consumers, and the current version of soft Euro socialism has bred a better product for manufacturers. I have no experience in East Asia so can't speak about what happens there. Slim, don't give up too soon on coverage. Have to see how the spectrum auction goes, first. Will it kill you if Apple and Google team up to outbid the telcos?

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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People sometimes don't realize that the entire area of all the EU countries is only about a third of the area of the US, and that the entirety of Japan is smaller than the State of California. This is a major factor in network coverage, speed, and price. And one that without new technology - we cannot, I fear, overcome.

Yes, here in Switzerland we have excellent mobile services with a very good coverage, but Switzerland is the size of Florida, and certainly the investment on those networks probably is higher than the investemt on Florida networks.

^^^Switzerland is much smaller than Florida. It's more like one or two of the New England states, maybe.

Originally Posted by TheIdler

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^^^Switzerland is much smaller than Florida. It's more like one or two of the New England states, maybe.

+1.

But, much better overall than Florida.

Jon.

Oh, I couldn' t agree more. One gave us Patek Phillipe, Lindt, and that adorable girl on the hot chocolate packets. The other gave us the Backstreet Boys, the Devil Rays, and the Bush presidency.

Originally Posted by TheIdler

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Oh, I couldn' t agree more. One gave us Patek Phillipe, Lindt, and that adorable girl on the hot chocolate packets. The other gave us the Backstreet Boys, the Devil Rays, and the Bush presidency.

Hey!

They are back and they are street and they are boys. And they are men and they rock my world.

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Jon.

Originally Posted by tiger02

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Actually what I mean is that I don't need all those "high profit gadgets."

That's fine for you, individually, but you do realize that phone manufacturers are still going where the most money is to be made. A phone that does nothing but make and receive calls is not a very high profit model.

It's analogous to the Auto industry. The US has more laws and regulations covering things such as emissions and safety equipment, so JP and EU have to dumb down their cars to work with our highly restrictive rules. With some specialized models (the most advanced models, usually) auto manufacturers don't even bother; they figure its not worth it. Same with phones. Before a phone can be imported to the US, it has to be retrofitted to work on lower quality networks, and with the top end models, there is no point, since it won't be as capable without the network to back it up. Just like a sports car won't be as worthwhile with restrictive emissions devices and lower quality gas and extra weight from safety equipment.

I need a phone. If I want a high profit gadget, I'll buy one. But if I want to talk to people for less than $0.18 (Hungary) or $0.34 (Italy) per minute, I have to move to the US. So no, I'm saying that capitalism has bred a better product for consumers, and the current version of soft Euro socialism has bred a better product for manufacturers.

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Capitalism has bread a much more mediocre product geared towards the masses? Yes, I can see that. Capitalism has bread the most socialized cell phone. Hehe. Ok. Socailism, though, has allowed the most freedom to allow manufacturers to build the most advanced device.

Also, hows this for capitalism. FCC overregulation, yet again. So now we have to suffer longer with old technology before we can fully embrace new technology.

My point here is merely to say the grass isn't always greener. You may have higher prices, but you also have more choices.

Originally Posted by briancl

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That's fine for you, individually, but you do realize that phone manufacturers are still going where the most money is to be made. A phone that does nothing but make and receive calls is not a very high profit model.
I think we agree about this. The difference is that I'm not too worried about Nokia's profits. Don't know if I can draw a straight line correlation to other peoples' experiences, but I haven't seen anyone using a phone for anything other than simple functions--calls, SMS, email, address book, notes, tetris--anywhere in Europe.

Capitalism has bread a much more mediocre product geared towards the masses? Yes, I can see that. Capitalism has bread the most socialized cell phone. Hehe. Ok. Socailism, though, has allowed the most freedom to allow manufacturers to build the most advanced device.

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Valid, I just disagree. Does your magnanimity extend to American manufacturers in other sectors? Do you generally support the unmitigated drive for profit at the expense of the consumer?

Also, hows this for capitalism. FCC overregulation, yet again. So now we have to suffer longer with old technology before we can fully embrace new technology.

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Not exactly. You now have the choice to not go pay a thousand bucks on a new TV. I agree on the broader point though, overregulation is no good.

My point here is merely to say the grass isn't always greener. You may have higher prices, but you also have more choices.

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Yeah...but none of those choices involve 400 anytime minutes plus 2500 nights and weekends along with nationwide roaming and long distance for $25 a month, which was the last contract I had in the US 5-6 years ago.

I might change my tune when the 3G iPhone comes out with its web browsing capabilities, except that it's still going to cost twice as much here as in the US.

Tom

Originally Posted by tiger02

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I might change my tune when the 3G iPhone comes out with its web browsing capabilities, except that it's still going to cost twice as much here as in the US.

Tom

Why not buy a Nokia N95 right now?

As well as being able to make calls with it, you get a 5 megapixel camera, 3G webbrowsing capability (including the ability to stream and download movies and internet TV, depending on mobile network capability), music, games and (potentially quite a useful feature) a GPS navigation device.

The screen is smaller than the iPhone, and it's not a touchscreen, but I think that once the hype dies down, the iPhone might find a rather lacklustre reception outside the US - simply because, as noted above, other markets already have phones that do just as much as, or more than, the iPhone and they do it for less money.

No use for a high mega pixel camera--I just in the last couple of months came around to seeing the usefulness of any camera at all. No use for downloading music, movies, or tv. My mobile web browsing will be for times when I have a couple hours free and want to find reviews of bars in the area, or am in the market and find a nice looking kumquat and want to look up kumquat recipes. I use google maps a lot so the native integration is nice--have to agree with you on the GPS piece though. Also, I use macs anyway, always have, and like the ease of synching, even if I have to use a wire, for now.