New 911 GT2

Originally Posted by Dragon

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Not saying the Skyline is a bad car. Just in my opinion it isn`t a car to be directly compared to a Porsche unless you are just comparing performance numbers.

The Skyline may be a nice car and great performance, but it will never be a Porsche. Just like the Supra TT, last gen RX-7, and NSX, the car will not be very a hot seller two or three years after inrtoduction in the American market. I would think it would last 5 years or so before being discontinued here. Performance to value ratio, unfortunately, does not help sell these type of cars like prestige will.

Originally Posted by Dragon

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Yes, cost is one. Of course, the new Skyline is going to have great performance, but performance isn`t everything for a sports car.

The Skyline is basically like a Corvette in the USA. Great performance at a cheap (or should I say, reasonable) price. Maybe they can go just as fast as the Porsche, but things like fit and finish, quality of materials, quality of engine (not just performance numbers), etc are all in a different league.

Not saying the Skyline is a bad car. Just in my opinion it isn`t a car to be directly compared to a Porsche unless you are just comparing performance numbers.

I think the GTR will be a much different animal than the 'Vette, handling for one. True, I agree that the fit and finish MAY not be as good, but we have to wait and see, since Nissan sees this car as something of a showcase. Now as to the "quality" of the engine.. do you mean that the Porsche is more 'bombproof' than the Nissan's? And as for technology, this car will be packed to the proveribial gills with it, and in this case I would say with a higher degree of confidence that the Nissan is playing in a different league. I drove the last model Skyline and my goodness it was wonderful...

Originally Posted by LSeca

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The Skyline may be a nice car and great performance, but it will never be a Porsche. Just like the Supra TT, last gen RX-7, and NSX, the car will not be very a hot seller two or three years after inrtoduction in the American market. I would think it would last 5 years or so before being discontinued here. Performance to value ratio, unfortunately, does not help sell these type of cars like prestige will.
That may be so, we shall have to see because the new Japanese cars seem to be coming into thier own design wise, no longer apeing the Italians or Germans. But the 'prestige' element I totally agree with you. I personally don't buy a car or some other thing because of what people will think of me, I buy because I like it.

Originally Posted by T4phage

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I think the GTR will be a much different animal than the 'Vette, handling for one. True, I agree that the fit and finish MAY not be as good, but we have to wait and see, since Nissan sees this car as something of a showcase. Now as to the "quality" of the engine.. do you mean that the Porsche is more 'bombproof' than the Nissan's? And as for technology, this car will be packed to the proveribial gills with it, and in this case I would say with a higher degree of confidence that the Nissan is playing in a different league. I drove the last model Skyline and my goodness it was wonderful...

I agree with you that the GTR will be much different animal than the VETTE. It was always better than the VETTE in handling and the new one will be for sure. My point is that the Vette and Skyline are in the same league (and Porsche and Ferrari are different). Meaning, they offer world class performance (like Porsche and Ferrari) at a fraction of the cost.

Fit and finish, we do not have to wait and see. The Skyline will be built very well (but cheaper), but not in the same league as a Porsche.

By quality of the engine, I mean the way performance is delivered or the way it feels. An expensive engine like the Porsche or Ferrari FEELS different than a cheap engine like a Skyline or Vette. They all can go about the same speed and produce about the same performance.

I am also looking forward to the technology of the new Skyline. The older models only had to deal with 280ps, so of course they handled very well. Now with the restrictions gone, It will be interesting to see if they can keep the same quality of handling with much more power without muting the natural feel of driving with a load of electronic intervention. As far as all the interior gadgets go, all Japanese cars have all that stuff lately.

Actually Vettes handle quite well, look at what the Z06's are capable of.

I think one of the problems that lie with some cars, is how much they rely solely on technology to increase performance, whether than actual physics. Take for example the Twin Turbo 911. compared to the GT3. I believe the new Skyline will be an amazing car, atleast better than its predecessor. In Japan, Skylines ae quite common. A lot of its mystique in the U.S. is due to the lack of availabilty.

Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe

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Actually Vettes handle quite well, look at what the Z06's are capable of.

I think one of the problems that lie with some cars, is how much they rely solely on technology to increase performance, whether than actual physics. Take for example the Twin Turbo 911. compared to the GT3. I believe the new Skyline will be an amazing car, atleast better than its predecessor. In Japan, Skylines ae quite common. A lot of its mystique in the U.S. is due to the lack of availabilty.

Yes, but that can be said about every car that isn't available in a particular country. I know I drool every few months when I see an Alfa Romeo, but if I lived in Italy, Alfa's would be no biggie, since you see them all over the place.

Jon.

Originally Posted by Dragon

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Yes, cost is one. Of course, the new Skyline is going to have great performance, but performance isn`t everything for a sports car.

The Skyline is basically like a Corvette in the USA. Great performance at a cheap (or should I say, reasonable) price. Maybe they can go just as fast as the Porsche, but things like fit and finish, quality of materials, quality of engine (not just performance numbers), etc are all in a different league.

Not saying the Skyline is a bad car. Just in my opinion it isn`t a car to be directly compared to a Porsche unless you are just comparing performance numbers.

While I can understand and certainly appreciate how a Porsche can be better than a Skyline, or how German/Italian sports cars are better than Japanese sports cars in ways that non-enthusiasts may not understand, the Europeans have nothing on the Japanese when it comes to "fit and finish, quality of materials, quality of engine, etc"

Originally Posted by maomao1980

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While I can understand and certainly appreciate how a Porsche can be better than a Skyline, or how German/Italian sports cars are better than Japanese sports cars in ways that non-enthusiasts may not understand, the Europeans have nothing on the Japanese when it comes to "fit and finish, quality of materials, quality of engine, etc"

Fit and finish and quality of materials is certainly dependent on which European and which Japanese cars we're comparing. In many cases, the European model is the clear winner, though rarely ever at the same price point. I'll certainly give Japan the edge in durability in almost all cases.

"Quality of engine" is a somewhat general term, but setting reliability and low maintenance costs aside, high-end European sports cars typically have engines that are more of a pleasure to use and sound better than their (albeit much cheaper) Japanese counterparts. A top of the line Evo and a current model 911 put out roughly the same horsepower but in very different ways, and I would take the Porsche flat six in nearly any road car application I can think of. The same can be said of a highly tuned late model Skyline vs. and a 360 Modena, and so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by maomao1980

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While I can understand and certainly appreciate how a Porsche can be better than a Skyline, or how German/Italian sports cars are better than Japanese sports cars in ways that non-enthusiasts may not understand, the Europeans have nothing on the Japanese when it comes to "fit and finish, quality of materials, quality of engine, etc"

Yes they do.

The Skyline isn`t expensive enough to use the same interior materials as Porsche or Ferrari, so obviously the quality of those materials are going to be lower in the Skyline. The actual build quality (of the chassis, body) in Japanese cars is great though.

Same thing with the engine. The build quality is excellent in Japanese cars, but that doesn`t mean they are the same quality as Porsche or Ferrari. The engine is the most expensive part of any car, so of course the much cheaper Skyline won`t have the same expensive feeling engine (quality) as a Porsche GT2 or Ferrari.

For the price, the Skyline is obviously going to be an excellent car. It will never be a Ferrari or a Porsche unless they decide to raise the price above the 100K USD mark. Same thing with other Japanese cars, like Lexus. Excellent build quality, but just not expensive enough to be anything more than a bargain in it`s class.

By the way, the GTR is going to be launched globally, including in the US. They've run test laps on all the major US road tracks against a Gt3 and have been pretty darn favorable "performance wise" if not fit and finish wise. I don't know which of the three models was racing, but the "base model" 450hp VQHRTT wailed a 7 minute 15 second Nurbergring time with an average speed of over 110 MPH. There will also be a V-Spec and an EVO version which tops out at 530hp and subtracts 220lbs of body weight for around $94k.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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By the way, the GTR is going to be launched globally, including in the US. They've run test laps on all the major US road tracks against a Gt3 and have been pretty darn favorable "performance wise" if not fit and finish wise. I don't know which of the three models was racing, but the "base model" 450hp VQHRTT wailed a 7 minute 15 second Nurbergring time with an average speed of over 110 MPH. There will also be a V-Spec and an EVO version which tops out at 530hp and subtracts 220lbs of body weight for around $94k.



7:15＠the Ring is incredible! How much does this base model cost (roughly)?

Originally Posted by Dragon

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7:15＠the Ring is incredible! How much does this base model cost (roughly)?
Credible rumors place it around $65-68k for the base model.-

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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Credible rumors place it around $65-68k for the base model.-

That's a little stiff for a Nissan, even a GTR.

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

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That's a little stiff for a Nissan, even a GTR.

Um... I suppose you could look at it that way.

I prefer to look at it as the least expensive vehicle in the performance supercar class in the world.

One Japanese car that had an edge over a European counterpart was the old Datsun Fairlady which had a gearbox designed by Porsche. Its competition were the English MGs and such.

Originally Posted by LabelKing

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One Japanese car that had an edge over a European counterpart was the old Datsun Fairlady which had a gearbox designed by Porsche. Its competition were the English MGs and such.

Fabulous