Haha, Lawyer Loses Dry Cleaner Claim!

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Some small part of me is surprised this case ended with this favorable verdict. It made me furious just to read about it.

For all of the jokes -- some of them well-grounded in unfortunate truth -- the legal system actually gets it "right" far more often than it gets it "wrong". As with many things, it's the spectacular aberrations, and not the mundanities of everyday business handled competently -- that draw attention.

Originally Posted by Faded501s

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LOL. It's summer and school's out. Shouldn't you be outside playing with your friends...enjoying the weather?



+1...and that's kinda my point. I've paid enough attention to your posts, and lawyerdads', to "know" you guys a little bit and conclude that you're not the "sharks" I'm generalizing about. To be perfectly honest, I've only known a handful of lawyers in my life and there are only 3 that stick out as fitting the "shark stereotype". All the others are just "normal" people (that work too much IMO). Like I said before, my lawyer is one of the most genuinely sincere and humanistic people that I know. The problem though, again, is that the system is too complex and too political and that lawyers have a lot of power...and power breeds corruption...and the corruption, as in this dry-cleaning case, should be eliminated somehow.

It's a bit like cops or umpires. When lawyers do their jobs competently and honestly -- as the vast majority do -- it's not all that interesting, and nobody notices. But because of the role they play in the system, the stories of the bad apples make far more intesting stories for public consumption than do stories of, say, waiters, movie directors, advertising directors, etc. who don't measure up to professional standards.

Originally Posted by Faded501s

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Or maybe those that don't see this are still working in the research department.



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No, TCN is right. Is buying beers for the judge how your wonderful lawyer resolves your matters?

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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It's a bit like cops or umpires. When lawyers do their jobs competently and honestly -- as the vast majority do -- it's not all that interesting, and nobody notices. But because of the role they play in the system, the stories of the bad apples make far more intesting stories for public consumption than do stories of, say, waiters, movie directors, advertising directors, etc. who don't measure up to professional standards.

The stories of "bad apple" lawyers don't appear out of thin air. Instead, these storys are heavily publicized by business sponsored "tort reform" groups. These groups, sponsored in part by insurance and tobbaco companies, publicize "bad apple" lawsuits in an attempt to manufacture public support for taking away individuals' rights to sue.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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I think you're missing odoreater's point, but it's sort of a semantic point that's likely to be lost on many non-lawyers.
+1

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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There's some merit to what you say, but in my experience the truly ridiculous, harassing lawsuits are most often filed by individuals (non-lawyers) representing themselves, thinking that a few episodes of Matlock have taught them everything they need to know about the law.

This may be true but stands beside my point.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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It's a bit like cops or umpires. When lawyers do their jobs competently and honestly -- as the vast majority do -- it's not all that interesting, and nobody notices. But because of the role they play in the system, the stories of the bad apples make far more intesting stories for public consumption than do stories of, say, waiters, movie directors, advertising directors, etc. who don't measure up to professional standards.

Again true, but beside my point that the "elitist" nature of the system, (because it is so complicated to the lay person), nurtures corruption and is a drain on society's resources as a whole.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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No, TCN is right. Is buying beers for the judge how your wonderful lawyer resolves your matters?

No, TCN is not right and No that is not how my lawyer resolves matters. To deny that the "old boys club" does not exist is naive. The only time I needed to defend myself in criminal court (long story) I was referred to my lawyer because he golfed with the judge. I've seen enough Chicago politics first-hand to know that judgements and contracts are awarded and permits are issued on the basis of who you know and not on legal precedent or merit.

Is this the case all of the time? No. Is it wholesale corruption of the system? Yes, here in Chicago IMO. I don't see black helicopters but it's still pretty evident to me that the legal system only works for lawyers and the wealthiest 20% or so.

Originally Posted by Faded501s

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+1

This may be true but stands beside my point.



Again true, but beside my point that the "elitist" nature of the system, (because it is so complicated to the lay person), nurtures corruption and is a drain on society's resources as a whole.



No, TCN is not right and No that is not how my lawyer resolves matters. To deny that the "old boys club" does not exist is naive. The only time I needed to defend myself in criminal court (long story) I was referred to my lawyer because he golfed with the judge. I've seen enough Chicago politics first-hand to know that judgements and contracts are awarded and permits are issued on the basis of who you know and not on legal precedent or merit.

Is this the case all of the time? No. Is it wholesale corruption of the system? Yes, here in Chicago IMO. I don't see black helicopters but it's still pretty evident to me that the legal system only works for lawyers and the wealthiest 20% or so.

I never said those things never happen, but I think the incidence is far lower than you believe. People like TCN and I deal with the legal system every day, not once in a lifetime. I can't speak to how contracts are awarded and permits are issued, but that's not the judicial system.
There are certainly complexities and inequities in the system, but that's true of our society as a whole. If someone put forward with proposal for something that would work better -- and I mean work better for society, not just for the lawyers -- I'd certainly be willing to listen. But most of the "fixes" I've heard proposed -- virtually all of them from advocacy groups who are less concerned about "reform" than about tilting the playing field a bit more in their favor -- would lead to far larger problems than the ones they would puport to address.

Since we are on the topic of dry cleaners I have a question.

When MOP buttons (brand new shirt) come back cracked on the surface what is this usually attributed to? I assume too much heat from a press? I specifically asked for and paid for hand wash/press and I do not believe these instructions were followed. Some areas of the shirt(s) had been severely creased and I think they damaged the fabric. I should have known better but I was tired of paying $20 a shirt at Madame Paulette when my friend was not working



Anyone have recommendations for dry cleaning in NYC around Lincoln Center?

so that is great the guy did not get a cent from the cleaners. not even anything for his time wasted.

but i am wondering if the cleaners got anything in return for their time spent wasted on this matter and health ruined?

The judge awarded them expenses.

Looks like the judge awarded the defendants court expenses which was about $5000. Their legal fees totalled approx $100,000 and the judge has not decided whether that will be awarded.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/us/26trousers.html?hp

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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representing themselves, thinking that a few episodes of Matlock have taught them everything they need to know about the law.

Huh. That's the same advice my Corp. and Business Law professor gave us.

Jon.

Originally Posted by gracian

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Looks like the judge awarded the defendants court expenses which was about $5000. Their legal fees totalled approx $100,000 and the judge has not decided whether that will be awarded.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/us/26trousers.html?hp

I still don't understand why they spent so much on their defense when the amount in controversy was obviously very low.

Originally Posted by TCN

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Now hold on there folks; if anyone should be sympathetic to this claim, we should be . . . and I am. First of all, the guy offered to settle with the dry cleaners for the cost of the suit, and they told him to go pound sand . . . so he got pissed. Not that I agree with how far he took this, but there's more to this claim than meets the eye. About five years ago, I sued my dry cleaners, here's what happened . . . We had an arrangement with the cleaners, whereby they would pick up my shirts from the front porch, and drop off at the back door of the house. They did this, and it worked fine. Then one day, they decided to both pick up and drop off from the front porch, on a day that happened to be a Purple Heart pick-up day. So the dry cleaners picked up our donations, dry-cleaned them, sent us the bill, and dropped off 16 of my shirts on the front porch, which the Purple Heart truck picked up and disseminated about an hour later. 5 T&A's, 2 Charvets, 2 RLPL's, and a mix of Pinks and Brooks Bros. (along with my wife's favorite cashmere blanket). I was able to recover five shirts from a Goodwill store in Detroit the next day. When I first told the dry cleaners about this, they were apologetic and said just give us a list of the items and we will reimburse. So when I ultimately gave them the list and offered to settle for 50 cents on the dollar, they told me that they didn't feel they were responsible, and that it was all my fault. I politely (always) asked them to reconsider and informed them that I would file a lawsuit (in my jurisdiction) for the full damages plus penalties allowable under Michigan's Consumer Protection Act, they again told me to go pound sand. Well, I filed a suit, and they kept trying to settle by giving me free dry cleaning (sorry, not interested). I was so angry, I wanted to keep the bills churning (I represented myself) and get the full payment plus penalties (there was no way they'd win btw), but ultimately agreed to settle because I was friends with the lawyer they hired to represent them. I regret not making those bastards pay more frankly.
Your post reminds me of Patrick Bateman.

Originally Posted by TCN

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Now hold on there folks; if anyone should be sympathetic to this claim, we should be . . . and I am. First of all, the guy offered to settle with the dry cleaners for the cost of the suit, and they told him to go pound sand . . . so he got pissed. Not that I agree with how far he took this, but there's more to this claim than meets the eye.......[edited]...Well, I filed a suit, and they kept trying to settle by giving me free dry cleaning (sorry, not interested). I was so angry, I wanted to keep the bills churning (I represented myself) and get the full payment plus penalties (there was no way they'd win btw), but ultimately agreed to settle because I was friends with the lawyer they hired to represent them. I regret not making those bastards pay more frankly.
Sorry, this is just stupid. You arranged to have multiple parcels of clothing, some worthless as garbage to you, some priceless as mother's pearls, outside on your porch on the same day with different people both picking up and dropping off, I presume within hours of each other. That was at your request? And you wanna blame everyone else. wow....

Originally Posted by Manton

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The one time I had a problem with a dry cleaners, it was because I had left a red pen in the interior pocket of a tan jacket. My fault, not theirs. Yet they told me that they search every jacket before cleaning, and if they miss something, they consider the mistake theirs. The asked me what the jacket cost and when it was purchased. They then sent me a check for the jacket, adjusted for a depreciation. Still it was a substantial check, and went a long way toward replacing that jacket. I not only had not asked for that check, had they not brought it up, I would have walked away blaming myself and holding them in no way responsible.

Parkway Cleaners, Bethesda, MD.

You've just tacitly confessed to using that sartorial pariah, the ballpoint.