Working with people who simply don't care

I have tried the good cop as well as the bad cop methods. I have also put people on suspension and terminated them. I have offered one-on-one training and counseling.

I did not label this thread "employing people who simply don't care", although I could have. Working with people who don't care can lower morale all around. Employing people who don't care does the same as well as potentially hurting business.

I'll keep trying, but its certainly an uphill, ongoing process that really shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Journeyman

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I think that you essentially have two choices - the "involvement" strategy or the execution strategy.

The former strategy is to confide in them, and to appeal to their reason and to their conscience. Let them know that they are important to your business, and that you rely upon them to turn up on time. Impress upon them that they have an important role in your operation and that they therefore bear partial responsibility for your success or failure. Tell them that since you need to know that you can rely upon them, that they must be able to be punctual. If that doesn't work, move onto the Odoreater strategy...

In my experience, this doesn't work. Peer pressure works best. I suggest you start by asking someone to cover for the latecomer and making it clear why you're asking them to take on extra responsibilities (If possible, they should also be compensated in some way). Gradually shift from punitive peer pressure to positive reinforcement, i.e. building an attitude of teamwork. Building a team where people care about each other so they all pull their weight and take pride in their work is very hard to do and you probably can't avoid firing some incorrigibles, but the only other option I see is firing all the slackers.

cuffthis - managing and motivating Generation Y is one of the toughest HR issues in business these days. There was an interesting article in the WSJ a few weeks ago on this topic - I'll try to dig it out

A pink slip might send them a mesasage

Originally Posted by Style guy

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A pink slip might send them a mesasage

he already did that, without much success. see post #31.

Man, some hardasses here.

You can't punish people into becoming motivated. It's bad for the work environment, and incredibly draining on everyone. Sitting people down and reading them the riot act generally doesn't work.

Every good manager I know tells me that in order to be a good manager, workers have to feel that they want to please the manager and also want to not let their team of peers down. This means that you need to be a good team builder. Your employees need to feel a stake in the business and responsibility towards one another, and this generally involves some sort of incentive that is awarded collectively. Leaders will naturally emerge, the other workers will need to hold up the slackers, and the slackers will definitely hear about it.

Perhaps some changes in the interviewing process? There must be some web sites on interviewing techniques/questions to find those motivated, self starters and weed out the apathetic. The good ones are there. Example: At our health club the coffee shop opens at 5:30 am and worked by 10 or so college kids. Most still have the wrist tags still on from that nights party, can barely walk, can't work the computers, answer a question etc. However, there are sometimes one or two that are bright, articulate, actually say "Good Morning" and remember your name. I actually recommended one to our HR dept, he is now a leader in sales, while still in college.
Best with the search. You have a great concept, it deserves outstanding associates.

I have to agree with Super K, you're simply picking the wrong candidates for the job. There's students out there that will work their ass off and it will have nothing to do with the money you pay them, it will be in their character.

And to be fair, you're paying them more per hour than they will get in their first job out of college, so it's rather screwed up that they don't value it.

how late are we talking here?

maybe you just hired a bunch of people with time management issues, like me.

Originally Posted by SUPER K

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Perhaps some changes in the interviewing process? There must be some web sites on interviewing techniques/questions to find those motivated, self starters and weed out the apathetic. The good ones are there. Example: At our health club the coffee shop opens at 5:30 am and worked by 10 or so college kids. Most still have the wrist tags still on from that nights party, can barely walk, can't work the computers, answer a question etc. However, there are sometimes one or two that are bright, articulate, actually say "Good Morning" and remember your name. I actually recommended one to our HR dept, he is now a leader in sales, while still in college.
Best with the search. You have a great concept, it deserves outstanding associates.

I call bullshit. No interview process is perfect. I know more than one boss who would pay very good money for an interview process that could weed out the apathetic and get the self starters.

The restaurant biz is very tough and tends to attract people who are not very responsible. There's plenty of turnover as people tend to be nomadic and a lot of "partying" even for people in their 40's.

I knew of a restaurant owner who made a point of finding the most professional servers and paying them a premium so they'd stay with him. He wasn't above pinching a top server from another restaurant, especially if he knew they weren't happy there. It takes some places a few years to find a stable staff.


Good luck, Tom!

Maybe they don't, take your links, seriously.

"People who simply don't care" are not working with you. People who don't care are working for you. It makes all the difference. If they cared, nothing would change. Their pay and their future prospects would stay the same. Why should they care? It's your business, not theirs. If you want to see them caring about their work, check out how they interact with customers, in which case a little care can mean a big tip.

Super K...it's a coffee shop staffed by college kids. Perhaps you should reconsider your expectations from people who get $8/hour to serve coffee at 5:30am. It's not the type of job that their lives revolve around.

Originally Posted by persid

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"People who simply don't care" are not working with you. People who don't care are working for you. It makes all the difference. If they cared, nothing would change. Their pay and their future prospects would stay the same. Why should they care? It's your business, not theirs. If you want to see them caring about their work, check out how they interact with customers, in which case a little care can mean a big tip.

I agree with this, somewhat. The servers, for the most part, ALWAYS get along with customers becaue 1) it directly affects their tip and 2) we have a comment card and we (my wife and I, as owners) talk to EVERY table. If you get a "fair" or "poor" comment either on the comment card or from our direct conversations with customers, we're going to have a conversation with the server, immediately.

It does happen that server and customers don't get along. I would say it's about 1-2%. We have instructed our servers to let us know immediately if there is a problem. We have no problem changing the line up and having a pinch hitter.

We do have a BIG problem when you ask a server to help another table or to attend a wine tasting or staff function (paid for by us) and you get silence or heavy reluctance. IMHO, that's absolute selfishness and not tolerable.

To only care about your self is to essentially not care, meaning you do not care about your peers, co-workers or employer. And that is the essence of my original post.

But this is just self-interest. (albeit not particularly enlightened). Why should an employee care about the welfare of "the team", unless there is some incentive involved. Maybe you need to implement some sort of incentive program.

Originally Posted by cuffthis

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I agree with this, somewhat. The servers, for the most part, ALWAYS get along with customers becaue 1) it directly affects their tip and 2) we have a comment card and we (my wife and I, as owners) talk to EVERY table. If you get a "fair" or "poor" comment either on the comment card or from our direct conversations with customers, we're going to have a conversation with the server, immediately.

It does happen that server and customers don't get along. I would say it's about 1-2%. We have instructed our servers to let us know immediately if there is a problem. We have no problem changing the line up and having a pinch hitter.

We do have a BIG problem when you ask a server to help another table or to attend a wine tasting or staff function (paid for by us) and you get silence or heavy reluctance. IMHO, that's absolute selfishness and not tolerable.

To only care about your self is to essentially not care, meaning you do not care about your peers, co-workers or employer. And that is the essence of my original post.