21 Shot dead at Virginia Tech

zjpj83 · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by JetBlast

Zjpj,
They did lock down the classes, I think we should wait to see what the actual VT representatives have to say. Press conference at 4:30 according to CNN.

JB
ok, thanks

JetBlast · Apr 16, 2007

In my email-
Baltimore, Dulles, and Reagan airports will observe a moment of silence at 5pm this evening.

JB

globetrotter · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by zjpj83

But, he shot people earlier in the day at the dorm, right? Then, seemingly, nobody did anything and he was free to go around and kill more people. Shouldn't they have shut things down immediately until they figured out what had happened? I guess they had no way of telling whether the earlier shooting was an isolated incident or not. But jeez, when my kids are in college, I would hope that the institution would err on the side of caution and if students are shot in any way, cancel classes and tell everyone to go home at least for that day to figure out what's going on. That said, this psycho probably would have found some way to kill people regardless....

what you have is minimum wage security guys, and contact with local cops who aren't a whole hell of a lot better. so, what does the security guard do when he hears about the first shooting? nothing, it is totally outside of his realm of comprehension. in al probrability, the first time anybody competant to deal with this heard about it was after the whole thing was over.

jett · Apr 16, 2007

yeah things don't make sense yet. from what I saw the first shooting in the dorm happened more than an hour before the second shooting. I saw a report that he had two 9mm handguns, but that doesn't really square with 50+ people shot or with 30+ of them dead.

TommyX4437 · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by jett

yeah things don't make sense yet. from what I saw the first shooting in the dorm happened more than an hour before the second shooting. I saw a report that he had two 9mm handguns, but that doesn't really square with 50+ people shot or with 30+ of them dead.

50+ people shot and 30+ dead with 2 semi-auto 9mm?

drizzt3117 · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by TommyX4437

50+ people shot and 30+ dead with 2 semi-auto 9mm?

I'm assuming he reloaded.

JetBlast · Apr 16, 2007

Yea, something doesn't connect here. Either he's f*cking Rambo or he's a hell of a shot, not to mention he would have to be carrying a sh*tload of ammo.

Either way I personally do not think that we need to be concentrating on the weapon he used, shouldn't we be concentrating on what is going on right now?

BTW CNN says the gunman was acting alone.

JB

Tokyo Slim · Apr 16, 2007

Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone is suprised by this number. Anyone semi-competant with a firearm or determined to cause mass injuries/fatalities in a crowded co-ed environment where there is little security and people tend to congregate around loud noises...

I'm constantly suprised at the relatively FEW fatalities in these situations.

From a tactical standpoint anyways.
I don't want to insinuate that this is any less of a tragedy.

lawyerdad · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by Buickguy

The problem is that the technology exists. The cork has been pulled and the genie has escaped, so to speak. Since it would be impossible to uninvent the technology, the question becomes one of further restriction. Looking at the history of firearm restriction in the United States is an interesting study.
The earliest restrictions were local. Some western frontier towns had carry restrictions that were selectively enforced. Locals were seldom, if ever stopped but transients were often asked to check their firearms in town. After the civil war, most restrictions were designed to keep firearms out of the hands of minorities. The first federal restriction came with the National Firearms Act of 1934.
NFA '34 placed a tax and essentially licensure on certain firearms and components, including automatic and select fire firearms (machine guns and those switchable to machine gun fire), silencers, short barrel rifles, and short barrel shotguns. Of all restrictions, this one has been the most successful. Since passage of NFA '34, there has only been one case of a licensed gun being used in a crime. The next major federal restriction came with the Gun Control Act of 1968.
GCA '68 established a licensing for firearm dealers, forbid the interstate sale of firearms directly to the consumer, established restricted categories of people (convicted felons, dishonorable discharged, et al), and included restrictions on ammunition. GCA '68 has been amended several times since its inception, including the addition of misdemeanor domestic violence as a category for restriction, the National Instant Criminal background Check System (NICS) and the "Semi-Automatic Assault Weapons" ban, certain provisions of which have sunset. The results of GCA '68 and its amendments have been less than successful, especially when compared with NFA '34.
Firearms were more readily available in the 1950s than in the latter half of the 20th century and the first part of the 21st century. Murder has always been illegal.
There is a point of diminishing returns. When does making more things illegal stop someone determined to break the law.

Actually, I suspect making it illegal and enforcing the law with at least moderate diligence.would make it much less likely that mentally unstable high school and college aged kids would get ahold of it. Tell the parents of dead kids that their deaths are just a reflection of the law of diminishing returns.

Dmax · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by TommyX4437

50+ people shot and 30+ dead with 2 semi-auto 9mm?
Sounds plausible the technical point of view. A typical modern full size 9-mm handguns hold around 17 rounds plus 1 in the chamber. Two handguns = 36 rounds available right away plus however many additional 17 round magazines. A reload takes 2 seconds. Moreover, extended length magazines are available which can bring the capacity up to 31 rounds +1 per pistol. No "Evil Assault Weapon" Uzi/AK hybrid needs to be involved.

lawyerdad · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by JetBlast

Yea, something doesn't connect here. Either he's f*cking Rambo or he's a hell of a shot, not to mention he would have to be carrying a sh*tload of ammo.

Either way I personally do not think that we need to be concentrating on the weapon he used, shouldn't we be concentrating on what is going on right now?

BTW CNN says the gunman was acting alone.

JB

Well, unfortunately there's not much any of us can do about what's happening right now, other than engage in idle speculation (and, as rnoldh suggested, pray if that's something you do). The precise subject of our speculation is unlikely to make much difference.

TommyX4437 · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

I'm assuming he reloaded.
Really?

TommyX4437 · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by Dmax

Sounds plausible the technical point of view. A typical modern full size 9-mm handguns hold around 17 rounds plus 1 in the chamber. Two handguns = 36 rounds available right away plus however many additional 17 round magazines. A reload takes 2 seconds. Moreover, extended length magazines are available which can bring the capacity up to 31 rounds +1 per pistol.

No "Evil Assault Weapon" Uzi/AK hybrid needs to be involved.
Thanks. Very informative.

Arethusa · Apr 16, 2007

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

I'm constantly suprised at the relatively FEW fatalities in these situations.
Why? Most people are bad shots, and the few that aren't tend to have very clear agendas and no interest in shooting indiscriminately. Jetblast: the weapon(s) used are a part of what happened. Not the most significant, but people tend to latch onto whatever they can get ahold of in situations like this.

globetrotter · Apr 16, 2007

also, the chances are that nobody would have tried to stop him. if he was possitioned in even a reasonably intellegent place, he probrably could have gotten dozens of people trapped in a bottleneck and fired into them at will. say 4 or 5 magazines plus what was in place, he could have easily shot 80 people with 50 bleeding out in a two hour time frame. I would also suggest that there will be people here who didn't make it who might have, if the shooting took place closer to a good casualty center that was used to handeling large numbers of gunshots.

21 Shot dead at Virginia Tech

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