what makes Seven for all mankind and Hudson jeans so expensive?

Originally Posted by GoldenTribe

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Can we restrict our criticisms to the realm of reality please? I've never seen 7FAM jeans with a price tag over $295. I guarantee they've never sold jeans for more than 400, and AFAIK none even over 300, whereas Rock & Republic and True Religion price jeans up to the low 400s.

Originally Posted by plei89

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And I own about 50 pairs of jeans ranging from $100-$1,200.

Why is it hard for some MCers (myself included) to take the SW&D bunch seriously? Stuff like this. (No offense to plei89, just an example that sticks out in my mind) Original thread got deleted because it turned into a discussion with many MCers extremely bemused at $1200 Levis with some gingham fabric sewn on and SW&D people stating things like "You guys just won't get it" or something like "I wet myself to these so &@$! off you blasphemous non-believers."

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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Why is it hard for some MCers (myself included) to take the SW&D bunch seriously? Original thread got deleted because it turned into a discussion with many MCers extremely bemused at $1200 Levis with some gingham fabric sewn on and SW&D people stating things like "You guys just won't get it" or something like "I wet myself to these so &@$! off you blasphemous non-believers."
I like to play devil's advocate, so I am a bit curious what the menswear champions would say to someone who simply did not care about fused construction, spalla camicia shoulders and so forth, to justify the existence of a $6K+ suit. Lots of people just don't believe in spending that much on something they consider to be intended for functional purposes and thus, in a sense, disposable -- whether formalwear or (luxe) sweats. But four-digit jeans aren't even rare any more -- just look at Balmain -- so their existence doesn't bother me any more than the many, many suits available for over 10K. Personally I own a few items I regard with something akin to the reverence I feel for classical paintings and great music, and for that reason I am loath to wear them frequently, understanding that ultimately their use will lead to their expiration. Some things are "just clothes" and you wear them out and replace them, while other things are artwork for all intents and purposes.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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Why is it hard for some MCers (myself included) to take the SW&D bunch seriously?
If we're going to play the "extreme examples" game, is this where I post links to the infamous Hermes orange selvage jeans? Or maybe I should just link you directly to Kiton Brioni? There are as many idiots making clothes as there are buying them, and those idiots come in all ages. FWIW, those weren't jeans for jeans' sake, much how a SW&D designer suit can be priced higher than that of a comparable MC designer.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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The hand and durability of the denim will depend on many factors, probably most importantly, all other things being equal, cotton origin and weaving methods used. For example, I haven't really worn my 22 ounce Drybones jeans as much as I'd like, because the Texas and (I think) North Carolina blend, combined with the weaving technique, makes them super rigid, and I'm a *****. On the other hand, 21 ounce Ironhear jeans, while heavy, feel much more comfortable.

I think that RRL is probably best quality jean at the $220 price, and it's reasonably easy to find as well. Not only that, but it is 13.5 ounces denim, which I think hits the sweet spot between feeling too light and flimsy and feeling really heavy. Also, the patterns are really good, and the cuts work well for a variety of body types.

I am mostly happy with my cheap jeans and my polo jeans will last forever but I do want one nicer pair so thanks.

Will give RRL a look.

Well no point getting OTR jeans. http://www.sartoriarock.com/jeans-su-misura.html Hand made buttonholes included.

Originally Posted by Nicola

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Well no point getting OTR jeans. http://www.sartoriarock.com/jeans-su-misura.html Hand made buttonholes included.
I hope you're joking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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This kind of thing is clearly out my expertise. Those jeans are like monster trucks with a la cucaracha horn. I'm sure some people are total connoisseurs of that kind of thing, but to me they look like old jeans with fakey wrinkles at the top, the ass pockets sewn on jankey and some gingham hobo patches.

Originally Posted by whodini

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I hope you're joking.

About what? A great deal of handwork in those jeans.

Originally Posted by whodini

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If we're going to play the "extreme examples" game, is this where I post links to the infamous Hermes orange selvage jeans? Or maybe I should just link you directly to Kiton Brioni? There are as many idiots making clothes as there are buying them, and those idiots come in all ages.

FWIW, those weren't jeans for jeans' sake, much how a SW&D designer suit can be priced higher than that of a comparable MC designer.

Well, I truly believe that most members here would scoff at a suit "decorated" by someone else by stitching bits of patterned fabrics on.

I know I would.

Orange selvage jeans by Hermes? Only idiots would buy that, nor would I (or most MCers) support it.

Hell, an otherwise beautiful suit with a custom liner done by an "artist" for 10x the price?

Yeah right.

Now the question is, why were those jeans I posted above so defended by the SW&D crowd?

Originally Posted by Nicola

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About what? A great deal of handwork in those jeans.
Do you drive a car assembled in a Porsche factory but made with parts from a Yugo? The intention nor the end result make much sense to me.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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Well, I truly believe that most members here would scoff at a suit "decorated" by someone else by stitching bits of patterned fabrics on. I know I would. Orange selvage jeans by Hermes? Only idiots would buy that, nor would I (or most MCers) support it.
But MC'ers buy jeans by Zegna, Borrelli, etc. What saves them from being idiots or getting MC support versus Hermes?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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Hell, an otherwise beautiful suit with a custom liner done by an "artist" for 10x the price?

Yeah right. Now the question is, why were those jeans I posted above so defended by the SW&D crowd?
Obvious generalization of the SW&D community aside, I don't think they were defended for the reasons you believe. Some would see the jeans you posted as justifiable because they are a designer piece that happen to made of denim. These same people wouldn't be justifying the denim quality or fit for the price, and similar people would justify three-digit t-shirts and four-digit sneakers. Their tastes don't some how discount or trivialize other garments just because they're similar. You do realize there's a difference between people who buy designer pieces and people who buy jeans, correct?

Originally Posted by entrero

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"what makes Seven for all mankind and Hudson jeans so expensive?"

answer: women

+100,000,000,000

Originally Posted by whodini

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Do you drive a car assembled in a Porsche factory but made with parts from a Yugo? The intention nor the end result make much sense to me.
What sense does this make? If you're arguing that the material is lower quality I wonder how you can say that. Aren't you the one arguing that spending money on jeans can make sense? Those MTM jeans are at most in the middle of the range of the prices in this thread. IIRC not much higher then the Italian price for Levi's Vintage 501s. You end up with a pair of jeans made exactly how you like. That fits you exactly how you like. You do know not everybody fits OTR. At the very least it lets people at the extreme ends get dressed in the morning. BTW Porsche made engines for Yugo. Oops that was Lada.

Originally Posted by Nicola

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What sense does this make? If you're arguing that the material is lower quality I wonder how you can say that. Aren't you the one arguing that spending money on jeans can make sense? Those MTM jeans are at most in the middle of the range of the prices in this thread. IIRC not much higher then the Italian price for Levi's Vintage 501s. You end up with a pair of jeans made exactly how you like. That fits you exactly how you like. You do know not everybody fits OTR. At the very least it lets people at the extreme ends get dressed in the morning. BTW Porsche made engines for Yugo.
I think this is exactly why I'm going to start a denim thread in this forum. There are too many misunderstandings and misconceptions that have derailed this OP. My assumption on the quality of the denim is three-fold: 1) from the photos, the denim looks fairly run-of-the-mill RHT, 2) considering the price of the jeans, I have a feeling where most of the money is going towards in a MTM product, and 3) considering that those jeans are made for people who want their jeans to be like trousers, I doubt that the customer is interested in or knowledgeable enough to care about the quality of the denim. Spending money on denim does make sense, but this thread has been about why spending money doesn't necessarily buy you good jeans or taste. Why would you assume that because these jeans are expensive or MTM that they would HAVE to be good? That's a pretty steep jump in logic that up until now I thought had been covered in this thread ad nauseum. Just because you have a pair of jeans tailored to your tastes doesn't make it a good pair of jeans. Actually, there are several details that any denimhead would scoff at the way an MCer would scoff at a fused suit: the lack of rivets around the front pockets, the lack of rivets in the coin pocket, using horn or plastic buttons, the lack of rear rivets, the "coin pocket," the non-tailored belt loops, etc. Sure, some of the jeans at a lower price range that I would recommend would lack a few of these details, but together what you have here isn't a pair of jeans, it's a pair of trousers made out of denim. I'm well-aware that not everyone fits OTR, just like I'm sure you're unaware that there are MTM jeans offered by several different jeans companies, such as my friends at Rogue Territory. But there are so many denim companies that many people never have a problem with OTR. It just isn't the norm the way it is with a suit. And I've never heard nor read that Porsche made engines for Yugo, but if so, wow. I couldn't have accidentally picked out a better example to showcase a mistake of legendary proportions.

@who

Got a continuum here of quality? I'm a bit curious. I'm imagining things like Lees near the bottom and APC near the top.