Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

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There's no doubt in my mind that for the first time the whole story will be covered properly, warts and all. The intriguing bit I was referring to was mainly about the fact that (very) young people were that (dead) serious about 'getting it right', style-wise. Roy mentioned that parents would be supportive so that kids could e.g. buy those imported button-down shirts from the Ivy Shop which I find intriguing in itself. A good example of that attitude was shown in Man Alive - "What's The Truth About Hells Angels and Skinheads?" I think BTW (with the parents remembering the fact that dad used to be a Teddy-Boy, similar attitude etc). You and Paul mentioned that people would save up for the 'must have' items which I think is great and absolutely convincing as for 'being into it' wholeheartedly. After all only those who took it all a bit more seriously are capable of telling the true story methinks...
My Father was the first Person who got me interested in Fashion.He always dressed in Suits(some would say he looked like a Spiv).He bought my first "Made to Measure" Suit in `62/`63. There was no going back then.My Mother liked the Music and the "Look".

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Like I say, old habits die hard. When I came South I had a collection of 45s on blue Stax and red Atlantic, plus some rarities on the Blue Beat label and the doctor Bird label - Tommy McCook and loads of ska.

Tamla and 'Skinhead Reggae' mainly. Here's something I was saving for the book, but I'll post it here anyway. I hope other people will be able to make a description like this of their usual club:


Steve Maxted was the DJ at the Savoy Rooms in Catford. He was famous in his own way. There was an advert once for the Savoy Rooms which said "Radio 1 wants him - we've got him!" and that was true, because he had been in some kind of negotiations with the BBC.

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The following is from http://transpont.blogspot.com may be of interest...

'Where were the South East London mod clubs?

A friend (Mick H.) has told me that he used to go El Partido club in Lewisham (8-10 Lee High Road) in the 1960s, a place he remembers being frequented mainly by young Jamaicans as well as some local white mods. King Ossie Sound played out there regularly. Other guests included Jimmy Cliff and the Duke Reid Sound System from Jamaica (both in 1966) and Bo Diddley in 1965.

George Austin recalls at Ska2Soul: 'music was a mix of Ska, Blue Beat and American Soul/Motown. The Club was on two floors, it had a small stage and very low ceilings just the place for live acts. Usually with two sound systems, one on each floor. Upstairs Duke Reid played with his home made sound system tucked away in a small corner, it was a large box, stood about chest height, which housed the amp with a single record deck on top. It had a selection of small lights on the front. The sound was turned down at the end of each record as it was removed and replaced with another disc, a large record box stocked with the latest sounds stood by the side, it's lid open displaying the contents. Speakers stacked up to the ceiling in each open room, pumping out the sound, using about 200 watts. The smell of hash in the air people dancing everywhere'.

There was also the Savoy Rooms in Catford (75 Rushey Green), originally a 1950s ballroom and known in the 1960s as the Witchdoctor. In the 70s it was renamed Mr Smiths, and I've also seen it referred to as the Black Cat - a later incarnation? The Rolling Stones, The Who (April 1966) and Desmond Dekker (1969) all played there. There is a delightful poem called The Savoy Rooms by Marie Marshall, in which she recalls being 'thirteen trying for sixteen in the court of the mohair miniskirt'. In March 1966, a man was shot dead in the club in a gangland battle involving members of the Richardson gang (including Frankie Fraser)'

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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I never had a Check Ben Sherman, The One's I had was Plain Pastle colours.. in Oxford weave, all long sleeve if i remember , The first Checks i had was bought at the Squire Shop, American imports, They also had half sleeves, and was lighter material Poly/Cotton, I was working so it would be 1969. The only other checks i saw was those cheap Brutus and Jaytex that the Little Skinheads wore in 1970.
Going back to checks, Although we wore a uniform as such, We did liked to be the first to get the latest Colour or Patten, Material etc Around my way i was one of the first wearing checks, and these was the American imports from the Squire/Ivy Shops, I met my mate Alan from Abbey Wood, at Charing Cross one Saturday summer 69 , I was wearing a Light blue /Yellow window pane, half baggie sleeves, Squire shirt, I never forgot him going on about that shirt, as he had never seen the likes before, next week he was down the Squire shop getting one. These little things stick in my head, I can honestly say around our way checks was worn more near 70, and most was the the cheap Brutus and Jaytex, Worn by 14 year olds that their Mums bought them... that looked crap up against a American imported Shirts from the Squire/Ivy shop. The Brutus/Jaytex was fairly tight fitting with a V on the sleeves , with a button each side, the rear pleat was sewn in. The American import was Ivy style a baggie fit, baggie sleeves that went down to just above the elbow, the rear pleat was not sewn in and would be a bugger to iron in. Their was snobbery back then with cloths, it caused no end of taking the piss, You had Skinheads who shopped down the High St, and Markets, And you had Skinheads who Shopped at the Squire/Ivy Shop.

Originally Posted by buttons

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Brownie - may be a bit to much detail to remember but the gingham Benny of which you speak - was it oxford weave? (and not like the many polycotton ginghams that Ben Sherman did later (1970) I'm pretty sure the checks (that were predominantly polycotton) weren't on the market til long after Jan '69. Most of my checks and ginghams have been polycotton. However, I do have one oxford weave gingham Benny (oddly enough in turquoise and white) that's otherwise the same cut as the oxford weave ones from '69, same label etc. Its the only one I've seen like that. I never did figure out where it fit into the timeline.
Spot on Buttons, When you think of it Checks would be difficult to produce in Oxford weave, In Fact its impossible even these days, Back then Checks would have had to be in Poly/Cotten, As i think the check would have to be printed on the shirt ? These days you can get 100% Cotten Check shirts,[ Not Oxford weave though] But i still think its printed rather than weaved ? I am not 100% about Printing and Weaving, Has anyone got any more light on this ?

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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Around my way i was one of the first wearing checks, and these was the American imports from the Squire/Ivy Shops,

Around my way me too, Roy! I think we must have been amongst the first blokes to jump on this...

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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I met my mate Alan from Abbey Wood, at Charing Cross one Saturday summer 69 , I was wearing a Light blue /Yellow window pane, half baggie sleeves, Squire shirt, I never forgot him going on about that shirt, as he had never seen the likes before, next week he was down the Squire shop getting one.

My brain is working overtime here. Your mate Alan - what did he look like and did he ever hang out in Lewisham? He was certainly the right side of the river.

The first shirt I bought from Brewer St was light blue / yellow window pane check. I bought it because it was just a little bit different than the yellow / light blue one that this other bloke I knew wore.

It would be an amazing coincidence if he turned out to be your mate Alan!

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Around my way me too, Roy! I think we must have been amongst the first blokes to jump on this...



My brain is working overtime here. Your mate Alan - what did he look like and did he ever hang out in Lewisham? He was certainly the right side of the river.

The first shirt I bought from Brewer St was light blue / yellow window pane check. I bought it because it was just a little bit different than the yellow / light blue one that this other bloke I knew wore.

It would be an amazing coincidence if he turned out to be your mate Alan!

I was just thinking when I read Lasttye's post that it sounded like the ones you and your mate bought! Trust you to be up with the larks!

Originally Posted by Little Queenie

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I was just thinking when I read Lasttye's post that it sounded like the ones you and your mate bought! Trust you to be up with the larks!

I've been up since sparrow's f***, Queenie. The shirt was exactly the ones we had - I recognised the description right away.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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I've been up since sparrow's f***, Queenie. The shirt was exactly the ones we had - I recognised the description right away.

Hard at work on the book, eh?

Originally Posted by Little Queenie

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Hard at work on the book, eh?

Give me a minute... give me a minute!

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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Spot on Buttons, When you think of it Checks would be difficult to produce in Oxford weave, In Fact its impossible even these days, Back then Checks would have had to be in Poly/Cotten, As i think the check would have to be printed on the shirt ?
These days you can get 100% Cotten Check shirts,[ Not Oxford weave though] But i still think its printed rather than weaved ?

I am not 100% about Printing and Weaving, Has anyone got any more light on this ?
I am really jogging my Memory on this,but did not BS do a Candy Stripe(similar to the Beach Boy Shirts on an Album,in the mid `60s) in a thicker weave.I remember keeping the Check Shirt for years after and comparing them to the later lighterweight BS.The quality had fallen-even the plain Oxfords deteriorated as they bacame more popular.I bought Shirts from the Ivy Shop,but when BS came out I bought them instead.It was not High Street though.

Originally Posted by browniecj

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I am really jogging my Memory on this,but did not BS do a Candy Stripe(similar to the Beach Boy Shirts on an Album,in the mid `60s)

Yes. I had one.

With the Markets,yes I did buy from them.I have already quoted Brixton Market but also Petticoat Lane(which in the `60s)was the best Market in the East End.The reason why I did this(remember that John started in the "Lane&quotwas that the Ivy Shop was getting very expensive.The more popular it got ,so the more pricey it became.Through Rose-tinted Glasses we can remember the Ivy Shop,but if the truth became known,they got bloody greedy.. The Ivy Shop did not do the Leathers and Suedes I liked-but the Markets did.To shop in the Market could take you all morning,starting off with the Record Stalls and then to other Stalls(I never bought my Shirts there though).I have already stated that I queued up outside Desmond`s Hip Record Centre,near Brixton Market,from 8/8:30am.Sorry but I liked the hubbub of the Markets,I have worked on a few myself.

Originally Posted by browniecj

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With the Markets,yes I did buy from them.I have already quoted Brixton Market but also Petticoat Lane(which in the `60s)was the best Market in the East End.The reason why I did this(remember that John started in the "Lane")was that the Ivy Shop was getting very expensive.The more popular it got ,so the more pricey it became.Through Rose-tinted Glasses we can remember the Ivy Shop,but if the truth became known,they got bloody greedy.. The Ivy Shop did not do the Leathers and Suedes I liked-but the Markets did.To shop in the Market could take you all morning,starting off with the Record Stalls and then to other Stalls(I never bought my Shirts there though).I have already stated that I queued up outside Desmond`s Hip Record Centre,near Brixton Market,from 8/8:30am.Sorry but I liked the hubbub of the Markets,I have worked on a few myself.

How much was the kudos of dressing well attached to the clothes themselves as opposed to where you purchased them from?

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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The following is from http://transpont.blogspot.com may be of interest...

'Where were the South East London mod clubs?

A friend (Mick H.) has told me that he used to go El Partido club in Lewisham (8-10 Lee High Road) in the 1960s, a place he remembers being frequented mainly by young Jamaicans as well as some local white mods. King Ossie Sound played out there regularly. Other guests included Jimmy Cliff and the Duke Reid Sound System from Jamaica (both in 1966) and Bo Diddley in 1965.

George Austin recalls at Ska2Soul: 'music was a mix of Ska, Blue Beat and American Soul/Motown. The Club was on two floors, it had a small stage and very low ceilings just the place for live acts. Usually with two sound systems, one on each floor. Upstairs Duke Reid played with his home made sound system tucked away in a small corner, it was a large box, stood about chest height, which housed the amp with a single record deck on top. It had a selection of small lights on the front. The sound was turned down at the end of each record as it was removed and replaced with another disc, a large record box stocked with the latest sounds stood by the side, it's lid open displaying the contents. Speakers stacked up to the ceiling in each open room, pumping out the sound, using about 200 watts. The smell of hash in the air people dancing everywhere'.

There was also the Savoy Rooms in Catford (75 Rushey Green), originally a 1950s ballroom and known in the 1960s as the Witchdoctor. In the 70s it was renamed Mr Smiths, and I've also seen it referred to as the Black Cat - a later incarnation? The Rolling Stones, The Who (April 1966) and Desmond Dekker (1969) all played there. There is a delightful poem called The Savoy Rooms by Marie Marshall, in which she recalls being 'thirteen trying for sixteen in the court of the mohair miniskirt'. In March 1966, a man was shot dead in the club in a gangland battle involving members of the Richardson gang (including Frankie Fraser)'
I never thought Mr Smiths was the Savoy Rooms,you learn something everyday.

Originally Posted by Little Queenie

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How much was the kudos of dressing well attached to the clothes themselves as opposed to where you purchased them from?

It depended on the item. I can remember that the brief popularity of riders and MA-1 jackets came about purely because a consignment of them arrived at a particular 'surplus' shop and were available for a short time. On the other hand the fact that you shopped at Brewer Street meant you were pretty tasty!