Mod to Suedehead

Robert Elms' analysis as for clubs vs live bands:

The only explanation I can come up with for this marked class difference is that the estate kids had no real concept of passive appreciation (...) Even football wasn't strictly a spectator sport for them (...) The terrraces of the early seventies were far from passive. Music for Burnt Oak boys was not an end in itself either, not an art form to sit back and enjoy, or analyse and discuss; it provided the back beat for their own show - they dressed the part, they danced, they pulled, they fought. Clubs could provide the perfect arena for all of that.

Taken from "The Way We Wore" page 109-110

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

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Robert Elms' analysis as for clubs vs live bands:

The only explanation I can come up with for this marked class difference is that the estate kids had no real concept of passive appreciation (...) Even football wasn't strictly a spectator sport for them (...) The terrraces of the early seventies were far from passive. Music for Burnt Oak boys was not an end in itself either, not an art form to sit back and enjoy, or analyse and discuss; it provided the back beat for their own show - they dressed the part, they danced, they pulled, they fought. Clubs could provide the perfect arena for all of that.

Taken from "The Way We Wore" page 109-110

Fair enough analysis. I'd go along with it.

Again I was an oddball, having brought my 'northern mod' attitude to music with me I was never out of 'Music City' in Deptford where I bought loads of records...

(There was a bloody good pie-and-mash shop in Deptford too!)

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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What that Bloke said about Ben Sherman's Check and Gang status was the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard, But thought the whole series was Brill,
If i remember! Ben Sherman never issued Checks in 68/69.
Roy,Ben Shermans had a Torquoise Gingham Check out 68/69.I remember this,as my Girlfriend of the time ,bought me one on my Birthday-25/01/69.Lovely Shirt(She wasn`t bad either!)

Originally Posted by browniecj

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Roy,Ben Shermans had a Torquoise Gingham Check out 68/69.I remember this,as my Girlfriend of the time ,bought me one on my Birthday-25/01/69.Lovely Shirt(She wasn`t bad either!)

In 1969 I had Ben Sherman in green gingham and one in slightly larger black gingham. I had a light blue Ben with a white double window-pane check and slight... um... nubbles(?) in the cloth too; I know I had this in 1970 but I am almost certain I bought it in late 69. Could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Again I was an oddball, having brought my 'northern mod' attitude to music with me I was never out of 'Music City' in Deptford where I bought loads of records...

(There was a bloody good pie-and-mash shop in Deptford too!)

I spent a lot of time looking at record covers ! Buying them? Not so much.

What was the music at your Savoy dance hall like? Mainstream? It certainly was in bigger clubs in NW London. Not much of the more obscure singles. However, if there were plenty of attractive girls there it did not matter too much.


Was the pie and mash shop Manzi's?

Originally Posted by Kingstonian

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I spent a lot of time looking at record covers ! Buying them? Not so much.

Like I say, old habits die hard. When I came South I had a collection of 45s on blue Stax and red Atlantic, plus some rarities on the Blue Beat label and the doctor Bird label - Tommy McCook and loads of ska.

Originally Posted by Kingstonian

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What was the music at your Savoy dance hall like? Mainstream?

Tamla and 'Skinhead Reggae' mainly. Here's something I was saving for the book, but I'll post it here anyway. I hope other people will be able to make a description like this of their usual club:


Steve Maxted was the DJ at the Savoy Rooms in Catford. He was famous in his own way. There was an advert once for the Savoy Rooms which said "Radio 1 wants him - we've got him!" and that was true, because he had been in some kind of negotiations with the BBC.

Steve wasn't a skinhead, but he was a DJ of long standing, and he played what the people who went to the Savoy wanted. Most of the audience were white girls and blokes, skinheads, and about a quarter of the audience maybe less were local black youth. Sometimes there was a black reggae band on stage but that was never a big success.

Only one criticism of Steve - he never mastered the art of cueing his records, there was always a long pause between his introduction and the music starting. But he put on a good act and played what we wanted to hear.

His set would start with a siren, like a high-pitched air-raid siren. It would be dark behind the decks. Then you would hear the intro of Can't Explain by the Who, which had been his signature tune since God knows when, and there would be Steve looning about behind his decks with a strobe light flashing and smoke bombs going off, and he would be making passes with his hands through the smoke - it was like some kind of hippy "˜happening'.

He played a lot of what is now known as "˜skinhead reggae', also Tamla Motown and some pop hits. There were a few special tracks that lasted years after they had been released. The first was Let's Go by the Routers from 1962 - people would clap along and shout out the name of a football team when the band shouted "Let's Go". Same thing to Harry J and the All-Stars reggae tune Liquidator. It was usually "Millwall" because most people at the Savoy were from S E London. I'd always shout for someone else, maybe "Blackpool!" with a big grin on my face, and blokes who didn't know me would be saying, "What? What's that c*nt saying?"; but my mates would be grinning and saying, "Nah, nah that's Paul, that's just his joke. That's just what he does." Another favourite was It's The Same Old Song by the Four Tops; Steve would whack the volume down at the end of that line and everyone would sing out "...OLD SONG!" at the top of their lungs. Another one was Shirley Ellis's The Clapping Song; Steve would cut the volume at the words "... a rubber dolly" and everyone would sing "... A RUBBER JOHNNY!"

The big record for girls to dance to, in a long line with a stamp, was Norman Greenbaum's Spirit In The Sky. Blokes danced to Return of Django by the Upsetters. We'd jump up in the air twisting through about one-eighty degrees and land with a thud on both feet, trying to coincide with the beat of the record.

Other things that Steve would do: he sometimes used to balance a dagger on his chin or his forehead. When he played Long Shot Kick The Bucket by the Pioneers he would stand on one leg, salute, and blow a toy trumpet.

It was always dark inside the Savoy. There was ultra violet lighting so girls' bras would show up as brilliant white if they were wearing a top that was too thin! At one time the whole place was called The Witchdoctor, but they changed the name back to the Savoy, and the room off the dancefloor where you could buy soft drinks was sometimes called the Witchdoctor instead.

If you fancied a beer there was a pub cross the road and down a bit. They had a habit of not serving anyone who looked like they had come out of the Savoy because a lot of people in there were under drinking age. I remember objecting to that - I was nineteen at the time and I pulled myself up to my full height and told the landlord that obviously he was making so much money that he could afford to turn customers away. I was pushing my luck, but I got served!

Originally Posted by Kingstonian

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However, if there were plenty of attractive girls there it did not matter too much.

Uh huh.

Originally Posted by Kingstonian

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Was the pie and mash shop Manzi's?

Blowed if I can recall. It shut down shortly after I got there.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Here's something I was saving for the book, but I'll post it here anyway. I hope other people will be able to make a description like this of their usual club

Fantastic stuff Paul! Would be great as for the latter, too

Paul, that's fantastic! You really bring it home as to what it was like. You also, show, that it was mixed music, tamla, reggae, even some mod rock all on the same night. Dunno if that was normal back then?

That's one thing these days, that they don't do very often. Usually, its an ALL ska night, like this Saturday night, where we've got four SKA bands playing for the Ska-turday party. Or its a Northern Soul night or whatnot, never often mixed.

But heck, most skinheads like all this music, so I don't see why we don't mix it up a bit more. But that's modern times I suppose.

Andy

If by 'mod rock' you mean The Who, that was just Steve's signature tune.

Back in `69,my Parents decided to move to Surburbia(Guildford).I moved with them,only to move back to East London 3 years later.On a Sunday night there would be "The A Train",which was held in an old Ballroom called the Plaza(in the early 60s,it was called the Ricky Tick Club-most of the famous Bands played there).There was no Alcohol served so if you fancied a pint,there was the Pub around the corner.The Bouncers were ok,they kept out any unknown Faces.
The Sunday evening would start off meeting up with the Boys, I got in with.We would go to the "Napoleon" where we had a couple of pints,before queueing up to get into the Club.The Queue would stretch right around the block-so you had to get there early.Once paid,you went through the big Glass Doors into the Club(unfortunately I have seen a couple of Guys go through those doors-head first).There was a Stage in front of you,with the "A"Train System in full volume.During the evening you would have Dance Competions for both the Girls and Fellas.There would also be Guest Djs-Guy Stevens spun there a few times.Live Artistes appeared there also.You made your way upstairs for the Cloakroom andd the Soft Drinks Bars(there was 2).Around the top you had a Balcony where you could sit with your Girlfriend,at a table.Again I have seen someone thrown off there.The Club was unofficially segregated into Mob areas.Our Area was to the right of the Stage,in the front,others were placed around the Dancefloor Area.The main older Guildford Mob would stand in the centre of the floor(there could be close on 200 of these.at any one time).The music policy would range from Reggae,Soul(Motown and Stax being the favourites),Pop andSoft Rock.There was no chanting of Football Teams as many of the crowd went to either Chelsea or West Ham(life could be a little difficult-during the Season).Like M-o-M has said,the Girls would dance in lines with Canned Heat or Norman Greenbaum being the favourites.Generally the atmosphere was brilliant.Its funny,I have only seen a handful of punch-ups there,because of the defined areas-but if there was a whisper of a rival Mob coming,then it could liven up outside-with the Bouncers joining in with you.In 1970,the Windsor Chapter of the Hells Angels came to realise just how lively it could become.

Nice one Brownie.

WAAAYYYY off topic, but I just HAD to share this with you - the message I noticed on my Virgin Media box...



I kid you not - no photoshop!

Originally Posted by browniecj

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Roy,Ben Shermans had a Torquoise Gingham Check out 68/69.I remember this,as my Girlfriend of the time ,bought me one on my Birthday-25/01/69.Lovely Shirt(She wasn`t bad either!)

Brownie - may be a bit to much detail to remember but the gingham Benny of which you speak - was it oxford weave? (and not like the many polycotton ginghams that Ben Sherman did later (1970) I'm pretty sure the checks (that were predominantly polycotton) weren't on the market til long after Jan '69. Most of my checks and ginghams have been polycotton. However, I do have one oxford weave gingham Benny (oddly enough in turquoise and white) that's otherwise the same cut as the oxford weave ones from '69, same label etc. Its the only one I've seen like that. I never did figure out where it fit into the timeline.

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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I mentioned The Ceasers Club, also known as the Country Club. Belsize Park,

Adam Ant Stuart Goddard, he came from a poor Council Estate in Kentish Town, He also went to school at Marylebone Grammer School. And was also a Original Skinhead.

I have attached a couple of pages from his Autobiography, His observations are spot on,

Also, interesting reading about Adam Ant - I never knew.
When he mentions putting thrup'ny bits or yank quarters in the fronts of your loafers - what's the originals' recollections of this?
I've heard a few people mention (from different areas) about putting Pennies in the front (hence the name Penny Loafers), where others have no recollection.
I can only assume it was a short lived fad that was really cool for a few weeks, but once over done, would be dropped sharpish.
I'm also assuming this was early on (in 'skinhead' terms) as other styles took over, then later the tassled loafer in 'suedehead' times.

I'm opened to be proved wrong!

Originally Posted by buttons

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Brownie - may be a bit to much detail to remember but the gingham Benny of which you speak - was it oxford weave? (and not like the many polycotton ginghams that Ben Sherman did later (1970) I'm pretty sure the checks (that were predominantly polycotton) weren't on the market til long after Jan '69. Most of my checks and ginghams have been polycotton. However, I do have one oxford weave gingham Benny (oddly enough in turquoise and white) that's otherwise the same cut as the oxford weave ones from '69, same label etc. Its the only one I've seen like that. I never did figure out where it fit into the timeline.
Yes Benny,it was an Oxford Weave.I loved that Shirt.