Shaq Retires

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

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He was no doubt a dominant player, but just imagine if he'd had a work ethic? Wilt worked out like a fiend when no one else did, Hakeem always tried to improve his game and footwork, Shaq just ate. He's a good guy, never made the headlines, but I still think of his career as underachieving.

I once heard Barkley make a similar observation (about himself). Basically, he was talking about how hard he had to work to be an effective player once age, back problems, etc. started to slow him down. He then basically acknowledged that he'd been a lazy bum when he still had his full physical gifts thereby left a lot on the table.

3rd greatest center ever.

Originally Posted by Reynard369

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Good riddance.
+ 1000.

Originally Posted by StephenHero

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3rd greatest center ever.
1 & 2? Hakeem, Wilt, Russel, Robinson? I'd agree Shaq is not #1 but he's had the most dominant finals performances of all time and, stressing championships in the modern day NBA, I'd probably pick Shaq. Shaq did put on too much weight over the years, but he was always a force.

1. Wilt
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Russell
5. Hakeem

Originally Posted by StephenHero

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1. Wilt
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Russell
5. Hakeem
Where's Mark Eaton?

Originally Posted by fir3fox

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Several years to late but he was great, great player.
+1. It's been sad to watch him try to play the last few years.

Originally Posted by mordecai

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Shaq

get the reference?

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

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He was no doubt a dominant player, but just imagine if he'd had a work ethic? Wilt worked out like a fiend when no one else did, Hakeem always tried to improve his game and footwork, Shaq just ate. He's a good guy, never made the headlines, but I still think of his career as underachieving.
Yeah, Shaq could have been incredible.

Originally Posted by foodguy

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i disagree with a couple of the specifics (he did have a couple of MVPs in there and will probably be regarded as one of the most dominant centers ever). but yeah, lazy as the day is long. all the physical gifts in the world and the ambition of Conne. like somebody once described a baseball pitcher: million-dollar runway, 25 cent control tower. i think that, more than any "whose team is it" is what caused the problems between him and kobe, a player with (on nba scale) not overwhelming physical gifts who worked like a crazy man to be the best. can you imagine having that drive and looking over at some guy who is 7-foot, 280-pounds, quick as a cat, who spends his summer eating cheeseburgers and driving police cars?
Only one regular season MVP award. I was surprised when I heard it last night, until I remembered his habit of eating cheeseburgers during the off-season, using the regular season to play himself into shape, and only really showing up for the playoffs.

Originally Posted by StephenHero

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1. Wilt 2. Kareem 3. Shaq 4. Russell 5. Hakeem
I endorse this post. David Robinson never had the fire to rank in the top 5, though he easily makes my top 10. Patrick Ewing also makes my top 10, but not the top 5. Where would Bill Walton rank? Top 10? Best passing center of all time, but foot problems really cut short his career.

Originally Posted by Sesame Seed

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Where’s Mark Eaton?
And Swen Nater. Where is Swen Nater?

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

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He was no doubt a dominant player, but just imagine if he'd had a work ethic? Wilt worked out like a fiend when no one else did, Hakeem always tried to improve his game and footwork, Shaq just ate. He's a good guy, never made the headlines, but I still think of his career as underachieving.

Agree.

Originally Posted by foodguy

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i disagree with a couple of the specifics (he did have a couple of MVPs in there and will probably be regarded as one of the most dominant centers ever). but yeah, lazy as the day is long. all the physical gifts in the world and the ambition of Conne. like somebody once described a baseball pitcher: million-dollar runway, 25 cent control tower. i think that, more than any "whose team is it" is what caused the problems between him and kobe, a player with (on nba scale) not overwhelming physical gifts who worked like a crazy man to be the best. can you imagine having that drive and looking over at some guy who is 7-foot, 280-pounds, quick as a cat, who spends his summer eating cheeseburgers and driving police cars?

I never quite thought of it that way between Kobe and Shaq but now that you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense.

Originally Posted by thinman

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Where would Bill Walton rank? Top 10? Best passing center of all time, but foot problems really cut short his career.
I would round out my top ten with Moses Malone, Robinson, Mikan, Walton, and maybe Dwight Howard (a bit premature, but he'll probably be there). Ewing could be there too, but his playoff record isn't strong enough.

Originally Posted by fir3fox

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Several years to late but he was great, great player.

this.

Originally Posted by thinman

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Bill Walton - Best passing center of all time, but foot problems really cut short his career.

I realize this is the conventional wisdom, but I consider Wilt just as skilled a passer. Wilt, in the latter half of his career, was forced to become a great passer due to rule changes, defensive adjustments, and media/team pressure. In fact, he remains the only center to ever lead the league in assists.

Still it's hard to compare the two.

Walton never played a lot of minutes, the highest minutes per game he achieved was 34.8. His highest assist per game average was 5.0.

Wilt, meanwhile, average sixteen seasons of 40+ minutes, with a career average of 45.8 minutes over sixteen years (Holy ****! This was before they had the trainers they do today). His highest assist per game average was 8.6, with three other seasons of 5.0+ assists.

Still, http://www.basketball-reference.com/...chambwi01.html and http://www.basketball-reference.com/...waltobi01.html allows us to compare average per thirty six minutes. I.e., if each player had played thirty six minutes they'd've collected these stats.

Walton's five best seasons, he had, per thirty-six minutes, assist averages of
5.2
5.4
4.7
4.5
3.9
Mean of 4.74

Wilt had
6.6
6.2
4.0
3.6
3.7
Mean of 4.82

Pretty damn close.

a good charitable guy who should have averaged 40/20. end of story. his peak should have been his median.
I put him behind wilt, kareem, hakeem, russell and even mikan probably. at least we are getting to see the 2nd coming with dwight howard, an affable guy who will never be what he should be

Originally Posted by thekunk07

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a good charitable guy who should have averaged 40/20. end of story. his peak should have been his median.
I put him behind wilt, kareem, hakeem, russell and even mikan probably. at least we are getting to see the 2nd coming with dwight howard, an affable guy who will never be what he should be

what makes you say that?

the fact that he disappears for 10-15 mins a game, has games where he takes 8 shots and never gets any better. his supposedly great defense is based solely on blocks, he doesn't play passing lanes or redirect shots. probably that.

thank you. i am not that avid of a follwer of his, that was a good explanation.