Paleo diet

holymadness · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by mm84321

What do you believe is causing overconsumption in the first place?
To be clear, you think bread and sugar are CAUSING people to overeat?

Not that your mindless pontificating isn't diverting, but don't you feel embarrassed?

mm84321 · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by munchausen

That's absolutely preposterous for reasons that have been pointed out. How many people do you know with scurvy?
My point is not that people today have high rates of scurvy--I never made any such statement--but that the causes of these vitamin-deficiency related diseases are not from of a lack of the nutrients in fruits and vegetables, as is commonly thought. That is all I am saying.

mm84321 · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by JMRouse

Food is easier then ever to produce. This has lead to an abundance of cheap food and large portions.
So, essentially what you're saying is that we are over eating because the food is just simply there to be over eaten?

Originally Posted by holymadness

To be clear, you think bread and sugar are CAUSING people to overeat? Not that your mindless pontificating isn't diverting, but don't you feel embarrassed?
Yes, that is what I think, for reasons that I have gone into in previous discussions. Someone who is overweight or obese and "over eats" is actually suffering from an internal starvation. The nutrients their bodies and cells need to function properly are being hoarded into their fat tissue, therefore, they over consume to compensate. Chronically high levels of insulin is causing this to occur, and the carbohydrates are what cause the high levels of insulin. Why should I feel embarrassed?

jawzzy · May 26, 2011

I just ate a whole bag of beef jerky while reading this threak. Just thought I'd toss that in. I think I feel my brow growing more prominent as I type.

SField · May 26, 2011

This discussion would be considered ******* marsupialed anywhere but in America.

mm84321 · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by SField

This discussion would be considered ******* marsupialed anywhere but in America.

Globalization: It's only a matter of time.

indesertum · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by mm84321

I think that misdiagnosis, or under-diagnosis, has a lot to do with it.

i think the most recent estimate for celiac disease was 1 in 133. even if it was misdiagnosed or under diagnosed since the vast majority of the population consumes copious amounts of grains wouldnt you think that more people would be diagnosed with it than 1/133 of the population?

so doctors misdiagnose or under diagnose the vast majority of celiac disease?

that's a pretty big claim.

I'm talking about the competition of cellular-uptake between the vitamin-C molecule and glucose. Both are similar in configuration, and since glucose is greatly favored in the contest, the uptake of vitamin C by cells is inhibited when blood-sugar levels are elevated. In effect, glucose regulates how much vitamin C is taken up by the cells. If we increase blood-sugar levels, the cellular uptake of vitamin C will drop accordingly. Glucose will also impair the reabsorption of vitamin C by the kidney, and so, the higher the blood sugar, the more vitamin C will be lost in the urine.

So, determining the level of vitamin C in our cells and tissues really has little to do with how much we are consuming in our diet, but more about the effect the starches and sugars we consume have in flushing it out of our system, while simultaneously inhibiting the use of what vitamin C we do have. It's not the absence of fruits and vegetables that causes the scurvy, but the presence of the refined carbohydrates.

but by how much?

how much glucose will inhibit how much vitamin C?

munchausen · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by mm84321

My point is not that people today have high rates of scurvy--I never made any such statement--but that the causes of these vitamin-deficiency related diseases are not from of a lack of the nutrients in fruits and vegetables, as is commonly thought. That is all I am saying.

well no offense but that's ridiculous and as far as I can tell you just pulled this out of your ass. If this were true, scurvy should be more prevalent than ever.

Piobaire · May 26, 2011

Oh hai gui, what are those Vit C rich fruits largely made up of? Oh yeah, fructose and glucose, which btw fructose has been implicated in metabolic syndrome too.

munchausen · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by JMRouse

Food is easier then ever to produce. This has lead to an abundance of cheap food and large portions.

Of course, I am sure you will have some kind of argument linking it to carbs, sugar and insulin levels that you read out of a diet book or on a blog. We need our demons after all.

Carbohydrates brought sin into the world, polluted the sky, and broke up the Beatles. Also, if you look closely at photos of the Kennedy assassination, you can clearly see a loaf of corn bread behind the grassy knoll.

mm84321 · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by indesertum

i think the most recent estimate for celiac disease was 1 in 133. even if it was misdiagnosed or under diagnosed since the vast majority of the population consumes copious amounts of grains wouldnt you think that more people would be diagnosed with it than 1/133 of the population? so doctors misdiagnose or under diagnose the vast majority of celiac disease? that's a pretty big claim.
I'm not claiming anything, it's just my assumption. We are, however, seeing a pretty rapid increase in the rate of gluten intolerance diagnosed in children, so it seems doctors may start running more of the necessary tests to look for these diet related allergies.

but by how much? how much glucose will inhibit how much vitamin C?

It's a good question, and one that will need more research to be able to answer precisely. Looking at diabetics, though, we see that the circulating rates of vitamin C levels in those with diabetes is *30% lower than those without diabetes. *http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918139

Lagrangian · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by munchausen

Carbohydrates brought sin into the world, polluted the sky, and broke up the Beatles. Also, if you look closely at photos of the Kennedy assassination, you can clearly see a loaf of corn bread behind the grassy knoll.

This made me lol.

Piobaire · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by mm84321

It's a good question, and one that will need more research to be able to answer precisely. Looking at diabetics, though, we see that the circulating rates of vitamin C levels in those with diabetes is *30% lower than those without diabetes.

*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918139

This study asks the question, "Do people with DM need more intake of ascorbic acid than those without." It indicates the literature shows DM sufferers have lower blood levels of ascorbic. Have you thought that maybe their disease pathology causes the body to utilize more Vit C? Further, how does this in any way let one conclude that dietary levels of carbs in healthy people prevents uptake of Vit C? If anything, this study indicates to me that the pathologic condition of DM requires the body to use more Vit C not that it cannot absorb it.

mm84321 · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Have you thought that maybe their disease pathology causes the body to utilize more Vit C? Further, how does this in any way let one conclude that dietary levels of carbs in healthy people prevents uptake of Vit C?
Their disease pathology is precisely what causes their bodies to need more vitamin C for the reasons I described. The implication is that because people with diabetes have high levels of blood sugar that the cause of things like scurvy and other vitamin deficiency related diseases is also from an excess of glucose in the bloodstream.

If anything, this study indicates to me that the pathologic condition of DM requires the body to use more Vit C not that it cannot absorb it.

It requires the body to need more vitamin C because not enough is being utilized and properly absorbed by the body.

Piobaire · May 26, 2011

Originally Posted by mm84321

Their disease pathology is precisely what causes their bodies to need more vitamin C for the reasons I described. The implication is that because people with diabetes have high levels of blood sugar that the cause of things like scurvy and other vitamin deficiency related diseases is also from an excess of glucose in the bloodstream.

It requires the body to need more vitamin C because not enough is being utilized and properly absorbed by the body.

While I highly respect your obvious advanced education and thought process in this could you just maybe provide a link that actually says this?

Can you maybe check into the whole kidney absorption thing for me too? Because I once heard that their just might be a link between DM and kidney disease which, you know, might inhibit absorbtion of ascorbic acid. Basically, you're taking a sequella and telling me the cause is the premorbid condition. You're making no logical sense.

Actually, I think I need to back out before I just come out and tell you I think you're full of ****. You haven't addressed the fact that most of the best Vit C. sources are also loaded with fructose and glucose, for instance.

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