EG advise against Topy rubber soles

Originally Posted by Tibo

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May I defend the opposite view ? IMHO, rubber soles are bad for the overall aesthetical balance of the shoe, they make it look heavier and bulkier (specially for shoes with a thin sole such as EG - it's part of what makes them beautiful and unique).

Moreover, I would tend to believe the explanation about leather soles having to breathe. But I recognize that's more of a debating point.

Finally, when buying a pair of EGs I see it more like an investment. Would you buy an expensive car and not service it accordingly ? I wouldn't. Similarly, I know I'm wearing pricy shoes and the 'service' of those shoes is going to be pricy as well. In other words, I don't have problems with the idea of sending them back to EG (even if it's expensive) to be resoled, provided I receive impeccable service and as-good-as-new shoes in return.

Finally, I'm living in a city and mostly walking along streets in a rainy climate, but I don't find leather soles to be so dangerous to walk with (that is, once they are a bit worn, because walking with new leather soles can indeed be tricky -but that's a 3-days problem).

Pretty much this.

I find topy soled incredibly tacky. Nothing says small timer more than rubber on the bottom of a nice pair of shoes. Also, apart from JM Weston when new, leather soles are incredibly sticky. I've never had a problem walking with them. To the people who defend their "cheapskateness" by saying it makes walking safer, may I suggest how to walk properly lessons

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

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I find topy soled incredibly tacky. Nothing says small timer more than rubber on the bottom of a nice pair of shoes. Also, apart from JM Weston when new, leather soles are incredibly sticky. I've never had a problem walking with them. To the people who defend their "cheapskateness" by saying it makes walking safer, may I suggest how to walk properly lessons

Didn't you post the exact same thing a while back in a different thread? And get flamed for it?

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

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Pretty much this. I find topy soled incredibly tacky. Nothing says small timer more than rubber on the bottom of a nice pair of shoes. Also, apart from JM Weston when new, leather soles are incredibly sticky. I've never had a problem walking with them. To the people who defend their "cheapskateness" by saying it makes walking safer, may I suggest how to walk properly lessons

I welcome you to come and walk the ice-coated sidewalks of Kingston, Ontario in -35 C weather in your leather soles and then make this stickiness argument. You'd be on your ass before you could say "cheapskateness." That is, if your toes didn't freeze off after all the salt on ate away your unprotected leather soles. There are legitimate reasons to topy your shoes.

Originally Posted by dasai

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Didn't you post the exact same thing a while back in a different thread? And get flamed for it?

Yes, i don't know why I can't advocate the defiling of a nice pair of shoes. But beige called a cheapskate/ small timer is very offensive... so I understand the flaming

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

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Yes, i don't know why I can't advocate the defiling of a nice pair of shoes. But beige called a cheapskate/ small timer is very offensive... so I understand the flaming
Ah, now I get why you're called ThatGuy. As in, "That guy is a total asshole."

A quality pair of shoes would reject the toppy, preserving the leather sole as god intended.

Originally Posted by GradSchooler;4494732[I

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]I welcome you to come and walk the ice-coated sidewalks of Kingston, Ontario in -35 C weather in your leather soles and then make this stickiness argument. There are legitimate reasons to topy your shoes.[/I]
Well, no disrespect intended but if we're tallying personal (and perhaps somewhat suspiciously apocryphal) testimony. I've been walking in snow and ice in the High Desert winters of Central Oregon for near onto forty years...in high heeled boots and leather soles. And have never fallen. The closest I have come (and I probably looked pretty ridiculous in the process) is having the Vibram rubber heel come out from under me...rubber, as in near-as-nevermind the same stuff they make Topy out of. There is something to the idea of learning to walk in snow and ice...or even just learning a better way to walk. Just as there is in learning the proper way to breathe. As for legitimate reason...maybe maybe not. I suspect "legitimate" just depends on what you want to justify. And as for that...at least in the context of Topy, no harm, no foul.

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

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Pretty much this.

I find topy soled incredibly tacky. Nothing says small timer more than rubber on the bottom of a nice pair of shoes. Also, apart from JM Weston when new, leather soles are incredibly sticky. I've never had a problem walking with them. To the people who defend their "cheapskateness" by saying it makes walking safer, may I suggest how to walk properly lessons

What? You actually wear your nice shoes??!!

You don't have a retinue of servants to bear you in a palaquin wherever you go??

Haha you're a tacky small-timer noob cheapskate!!!!111eleventy!!11!!

Originally Posted by DWFII

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I've been walking in snow and ice in the High Desert winters of Central Oregon for near onto forty years...in high heeled boots and leather soles. And have never fallen.
Even on ice? You lost me there. Here snow gets compressed by cars, only spikes will save me from falling.

Originally Posted by entrero

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Even on ice? You lost me there. Here snow gets compressed by cars, only spikes will save me from falling.
Even on ice. True dat. But my wife and I dance (ballroom and Latin, etc.). I pay attention when I go out in the winter and I keep my weight over the balls of my feet.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Well, no disrespect intended but if we're tallying personal (and perhaps somewhat suspiciously apocryphal) testimony. I've been walking in snow and ice in the High Desert winters of Central Oregon for near onto forty years...in high heeled boots and leather soles. And have never fallen. The closest I have come (and I probably looked pretty ridiculous in the process) is having the Vibram rubber heel come out from under me...rubber, as in near-as-nevermind the same stuff they make Topy out of.

There is something to the idea of learning to walk in snow and ice...or even just learning a better way to walk. Just as there is in learning the proper way to breathe.

As for legitimate reason...maybe maybe not. I suspect "legitimate" just depends on what you want to justify.

And as for that...at least in the context of Topy, no harm, no foul.

No offense DWFII, but theres nothing apocryphal in my description of an Ontario winter. I grew up on the west coast, so I know what those winters are like and it comes nothing close to the experience of a real Canadian winter.

I can't say I've ever been in the High Desert of Oregon in winter, but I would guess that it's pretty dry? Winter here in Kingston is wet, even at -35 C. It's the humidity that floats off the lake. When combined with all the (excessive) salt the city dumps onto the sidewalks, it makes for some extremely slick conditions that shoe spikes often barely help with.

I'm not saying I doubt your testimony, but I will say that I would pay $1000 cash to anyone who could walk down those sidewalks in leather soles as if it were the middle of summer.

Originally Posted by GradSchooler

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No offense DWFII, but theres nothing apocryphal in my description of an Ontario winter. I grew up on the west coast, so I know what those winters are like and it comes nothing close to the experience of a real Canadian winter. I can't say I've ever been in the High Desert of Oregon in winter, but I would guess that it's pretty dry? Winter here in Kingston is wet, even at -35 C. It's the humidity that floats off the lake. When combined with all the (excessive) salt the city dumps onto the sidewalks, it makes for some extremely slick conditions that shoe spikes often barely help with. I'm not saying I doubt your testimony, but I will say that I would pay $1000 cash to anyone who could walk down those sidewalks in leather soles as if it were the middle of summer.
No offense taken. I don't doubt your testimony. But like all testimony it is really only true for the person relating it. Like mine...which is why I called it (mine) "suspiciously apocryphal." I grew up in Minnesota. So...let me pose a little mental exercise for us all... And let me preface it by saying that leather is a fibrous mat. OK. So you're flyfishing for steelhead on the storied North Umpqua River in Oregon. This is a big hurried river that cuts its way through the bedrock of the Cascade mountains on its way to the sea. In the hallowed fly water, you can, today, drive along the river and "glass" the water with polaroids and binoculars. So you spot several nice steelhead in the 12-20 lb. class in a tailout below a fast riffle and below that is deepening pool. The best lies are on the other side of the river and it would be nigh onto impossible to get a good drift from this side. You can cross in the riffles if you're careful. But the water is powerful and knee deep or a little better. If you can get to the other side without falling in you have a good chance of presenting a Green Butted Skunk or a Golden Demon to fish that haven't been disturbed. Like all such rivers the rocks and in some places bedrock "glides" are covered with algae and are literally slippery as ice. You have a pair of nice stocking foot neoprene waders but now you must choose your boots. Choose well. First choice: Rubber bottomed ankle foots with a worn out (smooth sole). Second choice: Rubber bottomed boots with a new lug sole. Third choice: Felt ( a fiber mat) bottomed boots. Fourth choice: Felt bottomed boots with half a dozen titanium spikes embedded in the forepart and heel. Fifth Choice: A pair of strap-on wading sandals comprised of a rubber sole with many titanium spikes in the sole and heel area. Rate your choice for best traction. (answer: in order of best chance to get across the river without getting wet...4, 5, 3, 2, 1 And the last two (#'s 1&2) are guaranteed to set you swimming with the fishes.) DAMHIKT

Originally Posted by GradSchooler

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I welcome you to come and walk the ice-coated sidewalks of Kingston, Ontario in -35 C weather in your leather soles and then make this stickiness argument. You'd be on your ass before you could say "cheapskateness." That is, if your toes didn't freeze off after all the salt on ate away your unprotected leather soles.

There are legitimate reasons to topy your shoes.

Ever hear of Tingley's, Swims or a pair of galoshes? If you somehow think Topy is the answer, well then...

I can understand that some people would find rubber inserts aesthetically unpleasing. It is true that they make a sole slightly thicker and that might be a turn-off. But as for the fact that they damage the sole in the long run because they prevent the sole to breath, it is simply a mis-conception, illustrated by the following: "Moisture will always move from wet to dry unless it hits a barrier like the Topy and then it stops moving and additional moisture just builds up as it has nowhere to go." This is a fallacy, and just goes to show a basic lack of knowledge of how a goodyear sole is actually constructed (given the brands mentioned in this thread, I assumed a goodyear construction is what people are referring to). Perspiration does not go through the sole, to exit on the outside of the shoe. This is because the filling that is used between the insole and the sole is made of a compact mix of cork and glue, or rubberized cork. You can find an illustration of this in the book "La chaussure pour homme faite main", page 159 (it's in French, but the picture is quite telling). That glue / rubber around the cork acts as a natural barrier, and prevents the perspiration captured in the insole to reach the sole. The way moisture escapes is the same way it got in in the first place: through the insole, hence the necessity of not wearing shoes two days in a row, to allow it to breathe. Someone made a very pertinent remark: virtually all the high end shoe makers (C&J, etc.), do offer models that have a thin dainite sole. Of course, they are not as elegant as their full leather sole counterparts, but do you really believe these manufacturers would propose, at several 00's pounds, shoes that are so structurally flawed that they will rot from the inside as the dainite "traps" the moisture? This was confirmed to me by some of the top cobblers in Paris, notably at the Cordonnerie Duret in the 17th, whom I rate as one of the best in this city. Secondly, not all rubber inserts are born equal: Topy's are actually cheap, thick, rigid crap made of vulcanized rubber. On the other end of the spectrum, you have inserts made of natural rubber, that are thinner, more flexible, and virtually invisible unless you look directly under the sole. Illustration: I, for one, have been using such inserts for the past 15 years. One familiar with stair cases in Paris' older buildings knows that they are made of wood that periodically gets waxed, making them extremely slippery to climb with full leather soles. I fell twice, and consider myself extremely lucky I did not break any bone, given I went down an entire floor on ******. Subsequent to which I had all my shoes "proofed" with similar inserts as described above. They also ensure a much better grip on wet floors. It can be a real hazard walking on wet pavement with full leather soles. I have never had any problem of durability on any of those shoes. I get the inserts replaced from time to time. Occasionally, when the sole itself gets tired or the stitching shows signs of weaknesses, I get them fully re-soled (and subsequently they do get an insert as well), and there has never been any problem. But of course, I respect the cardinal rules: I never wear them two days in a row, systematically put wooden shoe trees after wearing them, and polish / cream them regularly. Do this, and a high quality shoe will virtually last forever, rubber insert or not.

Originally Posted by NAMOR

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I had my cobbler topy a pair of C&J.

hmh, double leather soles do not require this treatment. this is common sense.