Mod to Suedehead

Football was a massive pastime for Original Skinheads, As i have said i had no interest in the game of football, I went because my mates did.
If you was never part of a football crew.. to me you was never a real skinhead, You had to be part of a mob and a football crew member,
You could be the best looking and best dressed skinhead in the Disco, but if you was not part of a gang and the aggro, Skinhead Girls would not give you the time of day. in fact if you was not part of the gang, you would not be stupid enough to try to get in the disco

With Skinheads if they was not fighting they would be talking about it, Skinhead girls loved it, You would get these flash cnuts well dressed chatting the girls up, but once the fighting started they would be under the tables hiding.
Its funny back then you did not have to be the best looking bloke to get the girls, it was all about the cloths, and ones Rep.
We thought we had such exciting lives, life was so simple back then, little things was so big to us, we would talk for hours about nothing. All day at school or work we was thinking about seeing the lads that night.
None of us was interested in anything except each other.

The football terrace incident which sticks in my mind was this one.

I had gone with a bunch of mates to see Carlton Athletic at the Valley. Being local, some of us were wearing Charlton scarves, some of us weren't (I wasn't), and we stood at the Charlton supporters' 'end'. The visiting fans decided to take that 'end' - you talked about 'taking' someone's 'end', like "Oh we took the Shed", "We took the North Bank at Upton Park". There were no fences at many of the ground, you could walk round the whole of the terraces. Anyhow along they came , the other mob, and charged. Well, we thought "Fcuk you!", stuck our hands in our pockets, stood there and faced them, daring them to try. Know what they did? They avoided us and went after the blokes who ran!

Needless to say that when the blokes who had run regrouped and charged them back they ran, and I guess 'honour was satisfied'. Our bunch wasn't all that impressed anyway.

I have other tales but I'll keep most of them for the book.

Originally Posted by bunty

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The lad at the front has a patch on the right breast of his Levis jacket - is it a Levis patch or a Lambretta sew on one? Only that was a revival thing? So could be late 70's ?

BTW Yes that's Danny Eccles getting nicked, seen that great clip of him walking through the crowd looking around and not watching the game at all. Beat me to it Roy!
The photo quality looks more late 70s/early 80s. Anyone an idea? I've seen patches before on the northern crowd. Like in here, couldn't find the right resolution right now (the one with the patch on the jacket has another one on his trouser as well).

Originally Posted by loempiavreter

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The photo quality looks more late 70s/early 80s. Anyone an idea?

I've seen patches before on the northern crowd.
Like in here, couldn't find the right resolution right now (the one with the patch on the jacket has another one on his trouser as well).

Twisted Wheel, Manchester, about 1970. It's on a website somewhere.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Twisted Wheel, Manchester, about 1970. It's on a website somewhere.

MOM would that have been a do in the evening? If so, rather more casual than would have been the norm / requirement down south?

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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MOM would that have been a do in the evening? If so, rather more casual than would have been the norm / requirement down south?

As I recall from my visits to the Wheel it was a dive, so that jeans and whatever were accepted. If you go here, scroll down to the second pic and click on the link for more pictures, you'll get the idea.

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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As I recall from my visits to the Wheel it was a dive, so that jeans and whatever were accepted. If you go here, scroll down to the second pic and click on the link for more pictures, you'll get the idea.

I guess in 1970 things were starting to become a bit more relaxed here. But not to that extent. I recall in the high summer of 1969 going to Basildon Mecca to see Desmond Dekker on a week night and, even though I had a ticket and was wearing smart mohair trou and long sleeve BD I was ejected as did not have a jacket!

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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I guess in 1970 things were starting to become a bit more relaxed here. But not to that extent. I recall in the high summer of 1969 going to Basildon Mecca to see Desmond Dekker on a week night and, even though I had a ticket and was wearing smart mohair trou and long sleeve BD I was ejected as did not have a jacket!

The Blackpool Mecca was a bit like that. You were expected to have a tie.

Savoy Rooms in Catford was a bit more relaxed, but people generally did tidy up a bit for it. You wouldn't see jeans there.

Looking at the northern vs. London pics, I noticed that facial hair seems to have been a bigger thing up north.
Knowing that over there was more of a real continuity between mod and skinhead, with mod never really "ending" like it it did down south, could it be said that the northern crowds that went to the soul clubs were a bit older on average than the typical London skin?

It seems like that, looking at the pics. Most London skins look about 15, 16, while these fellows up north look more like late teens, early twenties. The impression I get was that up north they were mainly mod "veterans" who adopted more current styles while in London the skins were mostly younger kids adopting the skinhead look from scratch.

I always thought what became skinheads was started while i was at school 68/69, by school kids, No different to these days, most street fashions cults start at school,
Most Skinheads in W NW London 68/69 was 15 to 16 year olds, With our gang only about 20% was 17/18 in 69,
Same with the Chelsea Shed boys, most 15/16 Year olds.

@M-o-M, Brideshead
That gets me wondering, why is it that a lot of the clubs you guys went to, barred you if you didn't dressed smart? Club owners asking such demands, even if it was the current "in" thing, still find it strange it was mandatory. So did you find any other kids there at the venue besides skinheads, who had to dress smart?

Going to clubs in the 60s, including earlier Mods, Suits and ties was worn, it was a working class thing to put on your best cloths for Saturday night, so it was expected by these clubs that you dressed up for the occasion, this carried on during the Skinhead times, i have spoken on here before about this, Also it was thought if Lads had suits on they would not fight, Which did not always work out like that, many a Skinhead would get his new suit out of the tailors Saturday Afternoon only to get it ripped to fcuk that night in a fight .

Just to add your question about other kids at venues.. that was not Skinheads, It just did not happen, for example in the Tottenham Royal 69 it would be 100% Skinhead Boys and Girls,
As i have said before, every Working Class Teenage Boy and Girl by 69 was a Skinhead, if you was NOT a Skinhead you never stood a chance, and looked upon as a bit strange.

loempiavreter and Lasttye

I think Lasttye is right in saying that the smarter you were the less likely to pick a fight. That was the perception anyway.

It was a working class thing to dress up on a Saturday night. I like dressing up in any case. But among my mates the tradition on other nights was to show you could dress well in less formal attire. That was the test - to be just as well dressed even though you were not wearing suit and tie. In a way that was a more forward looking attitude I think. Whatever - I was not welcome that night Their loss!

It is interesting to note I suppose that come autumn, and wearing a suit and tie I was finally allowed to see DD - this time at Ilford Palais.....

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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loempiavreter and Lasttye I think Lasttye is right in saying that the smarter you were the less likely to pick a fight. That was the perception anyway. It was a working class thing to dress up on a Saturday night. I like dressing up in any case. But among my mates the tradition on other nights was to show you could dress well in less formal attire. That was the test - to be just as well dressed even though you were not wearing suit and tie. In a way that was a more forward looking attitude I think. Whatever - I was not welcome that night

Their loss! It is interesting to note I suppose that come autumn, and wearing a suit and tie I was finally allowed to see DD - this time at Ilford Palais.....
In the Army we would call it smart casual, ie Hacking jacket, Casual shirt, Tie, Cords, Desert boots

Originally Posted by loempiavreter

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@M-o-M, Brideshead
That gets me wondering, why is it that a lot of the clubs you guys went to, barred you if you didn't dress smart? Club owners asking such demands, even if it was the current "in" thing, still find it strange it was mandatory. So did you find any other kids there at the venue besides skinheads, who had to dress smart?

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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Just to add your question about other kids at venues.. that was not Skinheads, It just did not happen, for example in the Tottenham Royal 69 it would be 100% Skinhead Boys and Girls, As i have said before, every Working Class Teenage Boy and Girl by 69 was a Skinhead, if you was NOT a Skinhead you never stood a chance, and looked upon as a bit strange.

It was unusual to find anyone at these venues in our part of London who wasn't a skinhead, with the exception of some of the black kids who dressed a bit flashier. As for dress codes, that's just a bit of social history - most dance halls would expect you to be well-dressed going back to our parents' and grandparents' time.

The venues in SE London seemed to be a bit more relaxed about clothes - I've said this before. I frequently turned up at the Savoy Rooms without a tie or in a Harrington and Sta-Prest, but I tended to wear a suit usually.

The only time we had a definite influx of non-skinheads in our venues was each July. That's the traditional holiday month in France at it's often when huge amounts of French kids came on school exchanges. Because there wasn't a decent club between the Thames and the leafy suburbs of North Kent apart from the Savoy (or so it seemed) the French kids would all turn up there. We hated the French boys because their fashion chic was different, they had 'tidy long' hair (I can't think of a better way to describe it) and neat, arty clothes and all our girls would fancy them. There were fights of course. I remember once that my girlfriend of the time decided to flirt with one of the French boys. I was bloody livid, and it was one of the few times I actually picked a fight; but the boy had no idea what was going on, didn't understand what was happening, and I thought to myself, "Hang about, my quarrel isn't with him, it's with her." So I gave my girl one hell of a row about it, well outside the club - beginning of the end, LOL

Originally Posted by Brideshead

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It is interesting to note I suppose that come autumn, and wearing a suit and tie I was finally allowed to see DD - this time at Ilford Palais.....

I saw him at the Daylight Inn in Petts Wood, Kent. Another venue which didn't have a strict dress code. I think the more you penetrated into the 'leafy suburbs' to a venue the more casual became the attitude of the management.

Originally Posted by Lasttye

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I always thought what became skinheads was started while i was at school 68/69, by school kids, No different to these days, most street fashions cults start at school,
Most Skinheads in W NW London 68/69 was 15 to 16 year olds, With our gang only about 20% was 17/18 in 69. Same with the Chelsea Shed boys, most 15/16 Year olds.

You're right, Roy - 'peer pressure' had a lot to do with it.

I was 18 by the time I got to London in 1968, and by my 20th birthday in 1970 I was already in post-skinhead mode. I had mates about the same age as myself. Before 1968 I had been the provincial mod scene in Blackpool, and we were all 15/16/17. I was aware of the way a lot of the fashion kind of continued through from one period to the other - I can remember kids I had seen in late mod clothes in the summer of 1968 turning up by the end of 1969 with their hair shorter and in Tonik suits etc.

In a way I didn't want it to end, because I really enjoyed being part of an identifiable group, but you grow up and that's that!