Hazing in Greek Life

Cool. Humiliation leads to fearlessness and also contributes to earning one's lot in life. Never know what I'm going to learn on the styleforvmz.

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

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Y'all are probably right then. I'm rewriting the risk management and pledge programs for next year, you guys are probably a good splash of cold water given the culture I'm immersed in. Not trying to get anyone killed; just trying to have some tomfoolery and hardship. Alcohol on a brutally high level is probably a bad idea irresponsible to my brothers locally and nationally, although I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pledges to handle what I (and I'm only 5'5) can do on a typical Saturday night.

This is very reasonable. Like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the "be a senior brother's go-fer" type hazing, but anything that's dangerous should be off limits. You just can't truly control it enough to make it safe.

Also, props to you for actually listening. Like so many "advice" threads, this could have turned into a flame war with you defending an untenable position, but you actually paid attention to the advice and heeded it. I respect that.

Originally Posted by MrG

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This is very reasonable. Like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the "be a senior brother's go-fer" type hazing, but anything that's dangerous should be off limits. You just can't truly control it enough to make it safe. Also, props to you for actually listening. Like so many "advice" threads, this could have turned into a flame war with you defending an untenable position, but you actually paid attention to the advice and heeded it. I respect that.
Thanks a lot. I'm happy I sought out advice here--had I gone to Totalfratmove I probably would have gotten "HAZE THEM TILL THEY DIE" and had I gone to greekchat I would have gotten "Buy them pizza and gifts!" A quick link for all of you. Haters will be repulsed and Greeks might look back to the good ol' days. They captured it fairly accurately in W and it hasn't changed too much since his day.
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Most of the hazing I endured when I went through it in the fall of 1999 was mostly mind-related. I was never forced to drink or do anything too stupid.

I was in my 30's when I finally went to college. Don't know what the Frats did and really had no desire to join as they had nothing to offer me.

I'm with most of the other older posters here, the stupid stuff is pretty harmless but the alcohol stuff is not. But I'm guessing it will take the OP a few years before he reaches a level where he realizes this.

BTW I guess I never would have made it because once I puke I'm done. I've never been able to puke and then go back to drinking.

alcohol is not the only way in which hazing is dangerous. a fraternity at my school played a game where they took all their pledges out in the woods, tied glowsticks to them, and had them run around while brothers with bats swung at them. some kid ended up rupturing a kidney and almost bleeding to death.

Originally Posted by Teger

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alcohol is not the only way in which hazing is dangerous. a fraternity at my school played a game where they took all their pledges out in the woods, tied glowsticks to them, and had them run around while brothers with bats swung at them. some kid ended up rupturing a kidney and almost bleeding to death.

Really?? It gets physical usually but that's just sustaining the cold, an ice bath, or maybe being thrown down some stairs. There's chance for serious damage especially with the last one, but given they aren't being taken by surprise it physical hazing should never approach death. The top tier would never go that far. Must be some uppity mid tier fraternity...

How on earth is it paying for our friends. The dues we pay pay for housing, chef, booze, party spaces, busses, etc. Just as an independent might go to the the liquor store for a bottle of Jack Daniels, a fraternity goes to the liquor store to swipe through a a few crates of maker's mark. Our friends are made when we get to know them for free during rush and so on and so forth. The money spent goes to paying for concrete things.

Thanks for your insightful contribution though.

Originally Posted by madmadigan

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Don't take offense to this, but at 18; you don't know ****.

19-21 still pretty much don't know ****.

And I'm not saying you personally, I'm saying everyone at that age. You think you do, but you don't.

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

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My rationale for going through the process:
I'm respecting my alumni by going through what they went through to wear their letters.
I'm earning my lot in life. Once you've been humiliated to the max you have nothing left to fear. Nothing is too embarrassing to joke about.
Hardship truly does build closeness.



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couple of people from my high school were convicted of homicide in the early 90s for the death of a pledge in their law school frat. there was just mild physicality (compared to other fraternities) but they didn't know the guy had some heart condition or something, and he just dropped dead.

I don't think highly of frats, but I'm a firm believer in hazing. It inevitably gets out of hand, but it's good fun until then and provides a great way to bond.

Note: haven't read the rest of the thread.

Originally Posted by acidboy

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couple of people from my high school were convicted of homicide in the early 90s for the death of a pledge in their law school frat. there was just mild physicality (compared to other fraternities) but they didn't know the guy had some heart condition or something, and he just dropped dead.

Aw come on. That's like pieing someone in the face with some sort of nut covered pie and not knowing they're allergic. That's an accident that could happen from a few guys tussling around. If the fraternity keeps it "reasonable" to the point where the health risk difference from not joining isn't significant then they've done their job. You could say it wouldn't have happened without the pledgeship, but honestly, with conditions like that, any number of factors outside the fraternity's control could cause problems.

Originally Posted by Stizzyle

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This thread is further proof that college is idiotic.

It's even more idiotic that some are proud of paying for friends.

Losers.

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

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How on earth is it paying for our friends. The dues we pay pay for housing, chef, booze, party spaces, busses, etc. Just as an independent might go to the the liquor store for a bottle of Jack Daniels, a fraternity goes to the liquor store to swipe through a a few crates of maker's mark. Our friends are made when we get to know them for free during rush and so on and so forth. The money spent goes to paying for concrete things.

Thanks for your insightful contribution though.

Very few extra-curricular organizations in university are cost-free. Most student groups that provide any real value have costs they need to cover. Greeks organizations have insurance costs, unfortunately, as well, which must be covered. I believe every single one of any size is a registered non-profit and charity. The only extra-curricular groups I know of that are essentially free to their members would be sports team, and obviously their costs are paid for by others, due to the perceived value they provide to the university.

Hazing is a product of the GI bill after WW2. Prior to this there is not much evidence for hazing, as I understand it, directly from my mentor, who designs programming for Greek orgs. The GI bill brought back soldiers who'd built hazing rituals, and who figured they would do well to pass these on to their new friends. Hazing really has no value of any type, and while I know a very small number of activities that seem to fall outside the typical definition of hazing have been banned for liability reasons, almost all stereotypical hazing behaviour is totally unnecessary. I was not hazed, and as President of my chapter, would not allow hazing. If I ever heard of it from my chapter now, I would see to it that the members responsible were expelled from the organization.

Joining my fraternity was the single most rewarding thing I did during university. I am with Brothers nearly every day, five years after graduation, and even today one remarked to me how amazing it is that unlike almost every independent he knows, he still talks to a dozen or more university friends, simply because of the fraternity. Further to that, I had a ready-made network available to me upon graduation, and I know of a half dozen guys in my relatively small city from my fraternity in my field who I keep in touch with and receive advice from on a regular basis.

The fraternity experience isn't perfect, nor is it the only way to achieve the sort of outcomes I've achieved. Additionally, I admit that for me, the jury is still out as to the net benefit for the average male. For women and sororities, I truly wonder, given the difference in the way they operate and the bad experience several women I know have had. But for me, a fairly extroverted person who wanted more out of university, my fraternity membership is something I value.

fwiw i am in a frat and it was an ok experience. haven't had time the last year to be active though.

the worst hazing stories ive heard are about sororities, but they're more damaging in a psychological, not psychical way

My best friends ended up sharing a common room between two dorm rooms with a guy that was in a frat. He ended up becoming one of my good friends, so we went to Greek parties through him. Most of them were pretty lame, and always had a long line of drunks waiting 20 minutes to get a beer from a keg. The best parties I went to in college were not frat parties.

I'm not in a frat, but I party a lot (especially compared to kids I go to school with) but the op is a ******* idiot, I literally don't know where to begin.