Hazing in Greek Life

I had a discussion today with a bunch of people I went to high school with today, and those damn New Yorkers launched into their usual criticism of Greek Life. In this case the target of their condemnations was hazing during pledgeship.

This issue has plagued fraternities across the country for a few decades, indeed many states even passed laws regarding this. I am addressing this question more so to those who have been through the system though. Given the number of successful Americans on SF, I'm sure more than a fair share of you have been through pledgeship and partook in the lineups. Do you guys think this process is productive? The fire that tempers iron through steel? A valuable tradition? Or do you think it is dangerous and unnecessary.

I am personally a college freshman who barely scraped through a Southern pledgeship and turned my rage towards the spring pledges, and my stance is, honestly it made me much closer with my brothers and there is no long term resent between me and the upper classmen. Everything dangerous was done in a controlled atmosphere, and my brothers are smart, which may not always be the case. I support the process, at least as it is implemented where I go to school (pledged and paddled in the South, so I can't imagine any other area is worse).

Anyone else have any opinion on this? Balanced men Sig Eps need not apply.

stupid.

Originally Posted by ter1413

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stupid.

This. I don't care how "controlled" it is, a bunch of college kids doing dangerous stuff to each other is profoundly idiotic.

My stepson was involved for years in re-activating a chapter of Kappa Sigma that had been suspended for hazing. I believe the "nationals" of most fraternities are death on hazing these days. He sure never mentioned anything of that sort to me, and knowing him as I do, I don't think he would have tolerated being the recipient of any kind of hazing.

Originally Posted by MrG

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This. I don't care how "controlled" it is, a bunch of college kids doing dangerous stuff to each other is profoundly idiotic.

I could not agree more. The idea of controlled is to remove danger, not find the extinguisher after your brahs entire body is on fire. I understand the idea of "bullying" forming comraderie, look at this forum. But the stuff you speak of is as MrG said, profoundly idiotic.

most of the frats still do it. no one will admit it openly though

Originally Posted by MrG

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This. I don't care how "controlled" it is, a bunch of college kids doing dangerous stuff to each other is profoundly idiotic.

The forced drinking is probably the only dangerous aspect of it as far as I can see (and where all deaths result from), but honestly, it isn't much more intense than a particularly wild night. If it's binge drinking, then idiots are gonna go beyond reasonable limits regardless of the context, at least in this case there's someone there to call 911. I know more than a few guys who thought bonging Jack Daniels was a good idea well outside of pledgeship.

Another example of what happened to a friend is 30 guys were locked in a room with 6 kegs and had to finish it in a night. They realized the only effective way of doing this was to periodically throw up. They'd through up every 15 beers (consumed approximately in 2 hours), and take a break and resume. Nasty as **** but not dangerous.

Also much of the hazing prosecuted isn't even dangerous. Making pledges do 10 mile runs, waking them up at 6 AM for PT, or making them clean people's rooms or drive girls.. Dress codes and sleeping on roofs. The latter all fall under hazing by law, and personally I think it's ridiculous. Honestly, how could making a guy stand on the quad 8 hours a day making PB&J's be dangerous. Or making someone follow you carrying an umbrella. Humiliating yes, but totally voluntary, and people can back out whenever

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

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The forced drinking is probably the only dangerous aspect of it as far as I can see (and where all deaths result from), but honestly, it isn't much more intense than a particularly wild night. If it's binge drinking, then idiots are gonna go beyond reasonable limits regardless of the context, at least in this case there's someone there to call 911. I know more than a few guys who thought bonging Jack Daniels was a good idea well outside of pledgeship.

Another example of what happened to a friend is 30 guys were locked in a room with 6 kegs and had to finish it in a night. They realized the only effective way of doing this was to periodically throw up. They'd through up every 15 beers (consumed approximately in 2 hours), and take a break and resume. Nasty as **** but not dangerous.

Also much of the hazing prosecuted isn't even dangerous. Making pledges do 10 mile runs, waking them up at 6 AM for PT, or making them clean people's rooms or drive girls.. Dress codes and sleeping on roofs. The latter all fall under hazing by law, and personally I think it's ridiculous. Honestly, how could making a guy stand on the quad 8 hours a day making PB&J's be dangerous. Or making someone follow you carrying an umbrella. Humiliating yes, but totally voluntary, and people can back out whenever


all still very stupid

Originally Posted by ter1413

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all still very stupid

Dude you're doing a great job justifying yourself. Also since when was stupidity illegal.

You think it's not dangerous to drink that much beer just because you poke n' choke periodically?

Dangerous? Not always.
Dumb? Always.
Cool? No.

I agree. It's one of those 'dont ask dont tell' thing. I myself was a Sigma Nu and it was not that bad. It gives one a chance to bond with their "brothers" through hardship...

Originally Posted by NAMOR

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most of the frats still do it. no one will admit it openly though

Originally Posted by gort

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You think it's not dangerous to drink that much beer just because you poke n' choke periodically?

Much less dangerous. Probably much less dangerous than taking 18-19 shots in an hour at a party because your best friend dared you.

Also 50 beers over 12 hours isn't really that heavy of a consumption rate (I mean it's heavy, but on the danger level, it's pretty low).

Originally Posted by JChance

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I agree. It's one of those 'dont ask dont tell' thing. I myself was a Sigma Nu and it was not that bad. It gives one a chance to bond with their "brothers" through hardship...
and it does. we didnt have to do anything redicoulous like split 6 kegs among 30 people but the things we had to do did cause "excessive hardship." with that said, i wouldnt change a thing.

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

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The forced drinking is probably the only dangerous aspect of it as far as I can see (and where all deaths result from), but honestly, it isn't much more intense than a particularly wild night. If it's binge drinking, then idiots are gonna go beyond reasonable limits regardless of the context, at least in this case there's someone there to call 911. I know more than a few guys who thought bonging Jack Daniels was a good idea well outside of pledgeship.

Another example of what happened to a friend is 30 guys were locked in a room with 6 kegs and had to finish it in a night. They realized the only effective way of doing this was to periodically throw up. They'd through up every 15 beers (consumed approximately in 2 hours), and take a break and resume. Nasty as **** but not dangerous.

Also much of the hazing prosecuted isn't even dangerous. Making pledges do 10 mile runs, waking them up at 6 AM for PT, or making them clean people's rooms or drive girls.. Dress codes and sleeping on roofs. The latter all fall under hazing by law, and personally I think it's ridiculous. Honestly, how could making a guy stand on the quad 8 hours a day making PB&J's be dangerous. Or making someone follow you carrying an umbrella. Humiliating yes, but totally voluntary, and people can back out whenever

Dude. You seem like a nice enough guy, but did you read this before you hit "submit reply?" I know you're young, but really? This seemed reasonable?

Let's take a look at the keg thing. There are approximately 15 gallons in a keg, 128 ounces in a gallon, and 12 ounces in a beer.

That means there are 960 bottles of beer in six kegs - (15*128*6)/12 for those of you following along at home. Now, there are 30 guys in the room, which means each of those guys had to drink 32 beers to kill those kegs. I've been drinking for longer than I'd care to admit, and I'm pretty damn good at it. If I were to kill 32 beers in a night I'd end up in the hospital, and I may well die. Forcing someone people to do that is beyond idiotic; it's criminal negligence.

Also, pro tip: If someone is inducing vomiting so they don't end up with alcohol poisoning, they're a moron.