Bespoke Shoe - Measuring Advice

Hi all,

was hoping someone could help at all:

I plan on ordering some bespoke shoes, and specifically some shoes from central/eastern Europe (seems to be very reasonably priced and with good quality when compared to more established names); being based in the UK I'm obviously not too thrilled about the prospect of jumping on a plane just so someone can wrap a tape around my foot. Many of the bespoke shoemakers give explicit instructions as to how to do the measuring yourself: I don't want to take the risk. Would a shoemaker a bit closer to home be happy to professionally take my foot measurements? Or would this be construed as an egregious insult!?

A question for the English members (and perhaps I'm being naive here as I've never ordered a pair of bespoke shoes before) - but Clarks the shoe store measure peoples feet and seem to have the tools necessary to do that; I'm unsure as to how scientific the actual measuring has to be and whether they'd be a noticeable difference between a sales assistant and a professional cobbler measuring my feet.

Any help is appreciated.

Interesting question. I think there is more to the art than just taking a few measurements. When I had my feet measured the shoemaker spent a good 20-30 minutes taking various measurements, noting where the joints were and noting other oddities on my strangely shaped feet. I'll admit that the tracing of the foot looks like childplay; I think I could've managed that bit myself. Part of the appeal of bespoke is having an expert to take measurements.

I'm not sure if I would trust my local Clarks to take any measurement especially if I got the Saturday girl! The problem is there are a lack of UK shoemakers. Fosters are currently making me a pair of shoes, yes they are expensive but they will at least fit. If money is a concern Trickers on Jermyn St claim to do a bespoke shoe for £1K. Ducker & Son in Oxford do bespoke for £1500 though I was told it would be a 47 week turnaround!

My recommendation would be to look for a local Pedorthic/Comfort shop, go there and explain to the proprietor that you would like to have your feet measured for some bespoke dress shoes.

At the same time I would recommend that you purchase something from him in exchange.

Your local C.Ped could do everything from measuring, tracing, taking ink patterns, or casts that you could send along to your shoe maker.

Originally Posted by Stanley the 2nd

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Interesting question. I think there is more to the art than just taking a few measurements. When I had my feet measured the shoemaker spent a good 20-30 minutes taking various measurements, noting where the joints were and noting other oddities on my strangely shaped feet. I'll admit that the tracing of the foot looks like childplay; I think I could've managed that bit myself. Part of the appeal of bespoke is having an expert to take measurements.

I'm not sure if I would trust my local Clarks to take any measurement especially if I got the Saturday girl! The problem is there are a lack of UK shoemakers. Fosters are currently making me a pair of shoes, yes they are expensive but they will at least fit. If money is a concern Trickers on Jermyn St claim to do a bespoke shoe for £1K. Ducker & Son in Oxford do bespoke for £1500 though I was told it would be a 47 week turnaround!

Sounds like something for the future to be honest - I'm 23 and although I could probably save in the next few months enough money for a pair of English bespoke shoes, when all is said and done I have to ask myself whether I'm justified in spending that sum of money on some shoes (albeit some very nice shoes). When I'm a bit older I think (with a bit more capital!)

What kindled my interest in bespoke shoes from central and eastern Europe was their price: a price considerably cheaper than in England. I gather that in most instances this is predominantly due to a mixture of exchange rates and cost of living / labour rates. I'm looking at Jan Kielman in particular (http://www.kielman.pl/en/index.php). I've done a bit of preliminary research and he seems to be well respected - as superficial as it is, from his pictures his shoes look remarkably good! And given his prices (a quarter or a third of English bespoke prices) there's definitely a greater appeal to his shoes than perhaps to more homegrown offerings.

Originally Posted by pgd3

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My recommendation would be to look for a local Pedorthic/Comfort shop, go there and explain to the proprietor that you would like to have your feet measured for some bespoke dress shoes.

At the same time I would recommend that you purchase something from him in exchange.

Your local C.Ped could do everything from measuring, tracing, taking ink patterns, or casts that you could send along to your shoe maker.

Sounds like a plan!

Not to piss on your parade, you would be better off with made-to-order shoes; there are many options available, even if cost is an issue. With the approach you are considering, I see no real advantage over mto and to be honest, could end up with a pair of shoes that does not fit as well as rtw/mto shoes.

Is there a particular reason you want bespoke shoes?

Originally Posted by Macallan

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Not to piss on your parade, you would be better off with made-to-order shoes; there are many options available, even if cost is an issue. With the approach you are considering, I see no real advantage over mto and to be honest, could end up with a pair of shoes that does not fit as well as rtw/mto shoes.

Is there a particular reason you want bespoke shoes?

Could do, but conversely I could end up with some fantastic shoes less the premium usually paid for bespoke footwear. I take what you're saying: there is a risk, which is why I want to ensure that I can guarantee that any measurements taken are what would normally be taken by the cobbler himself; if I can't guarantee that then obviously I won't take the risk.

But when all is said and done, these bespoke shoes would cost me about £400 - £450. I'm happy to spend that assuming that I've done everything to ensure the correct fit. Premium RTW shoes, which I can get from the likes of Vass, Corthay or G&G, is contingent on whether I can guarantee the correct measurements of my foot - but in each case they'd cost about £600+. I'm fine with that, but I'd be much happier spending £200 odd pound less on some quality bespoke shoes. You see where I'm coming from? Suffice to say I'm not after some bespoke shoes simply for the sake of them being bespoke - I'm after quality footwear, but I'm savvy enough to shop around and get the best deal I can: I think bespoke shoes from this particular cobbler presents a cracking deal.

I'm going to give you some "expert" advice...forget about it.

Each shoemaker measures certain areas of the foot...called "girths"...in their own way. Most of the time these girth measurements are taken around certain topographical features. But some see those measurements and those features differently than others.

For instance, I measure a short heel, a high instep, a low instep, a waist, a joint and a long heel. Many makers don't recognize a low instep as distinct from a high instep despite the fact that there is generally an inch separating the two locations. And most, I would venture to say, neither take measurements for the short heel or long heel nor do they consider those girths when making the shoe. The further away from a truly traditional bespoke maker the measurer is, the more likely he will not recognize more than joint, waist and instep.

Now to compound that, each maker will draw the measuring tape with a muscle tension that is unique to his own physiology. I can show a student where and how I measure a foot and nine times out of ten they will get a different figure. A maker cannot can not pass on to a student what he is feeling, except in the most general terms, anymore than he can duplicate what another maker is feeling.

Yet the numbers that the maker arrives at are what he uses to model the last, fit the foot, and even, to some extent, cut the patterns.

I wouldn't use the measurements taken by one of my own students nevermind someone who is not even a maker.

Bottom line...if you want to pay your money--to have a third party measure your foot and then a distant maker to use those measurements--you lose. Period.

If you're saving 200 pounds per pair over good RTW, why not invest in a budget ticket to Poland and write it off as R&D for the first order? You'll get the product you want, and the subsequent savings will repay the initial expense many times.

I've had a thought. Lodger shoes in London have a electronic foot scanner where they scan your feet and it gives out all the various measurements. If you live near London I am sure they would scan your feet for a small fee.

Originally Posted by Concordia

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If you're saving 200 pounds per pair over good RTW, why not invest in a budget ticket to Poland and write it off as R&D for the first order? You'll get the product you want, and the subsequent savings will repay the initial expense many times.

this

although, i've talked to people who had wonderful results with a remote operation through kielman.

Originally Posted by Stanley the 2nd

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I've had a thought. Lodger shoes in London have a electronic foot scanner where they scan your feet and it gives out all the various measurements. If you live near London I am sure they would scan your feet for a small fee.
Sounds like something worth looking into. I've actually bought shoes from Lodger in the past so travel isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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I'm going to give you some "expert" advice...forget about it. Each shoemaker measures certain areas of the foot...called "girths"...in their own way. Most of the time these girth measurements are taken around certain topographical features. But some see those measurements and those features differently than others. For instance, I measure a short heel, a high instep, a low instep, a waist, a joint and a long heel. Many makers don't recognize a low instep as distinct from a high instep despite the fact that there is generally an inch separating the two locations. And most, I would venture to say, neither take measurements for the short heel or long heel nor do they consider those girths when making the shoe. The further away from a truly traditional bespoke maker the measurer is, the more likely he will not recognize more than joint, waist and instep. Now to compound that, each maker will draw the measuring tape with a muscle tension that is unique to his own physiology. I can show a student where and how I measure a foot and nine times out of ten they will get a different figure. A maker cannot can not pass on to a student what he is feeling, except in the most general terms, anymore than he can duplicate what another maker is feeling. Yet the numbers that the maker arrives at are what he uses to model the last, fit the foot, and even, to some extent, cut the patterns. I wouldn't use the measurements taken by one of my own students nevermind someone who is not even a maker. Bottom line...if you want to pay your money--to have a third party measure your foot and then a distant maker to use those measurements--you lose. Period.
Well, possibly. The fact of the matter is that this particular cobbler generates a lot of his business via parties who more often than not never even see him face-to-face. I understand what you're saying though.

If you're saving 200 pounds per pair over good RTW, why not invest in a budget ticket to Poland and write it off as R&D for the first order? You'll get the product you want, and the subsequent savings will repay the initial expense many times.

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Not a bad idea actually...

although, i've talked to people who had wonderful results with a remote operation through kielman.

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How did they go about getting the measurements to him?

Originally Posted by Stanley the 2nd

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I've had a thought. Lodger shoes in London have a electronic foot scanner where they scan your feet and it gives out all the various measurements. If you live near London I am sure they would scan your feet for a small fee.
It's the same problem...unless the bespoke maker has a similar make of scanner in shop and uses it consistently for making or modifying lasts...the results "don't compute," as who should say.

Originally Posted by ShaneB

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How did they go about getting the measurements to him?

postal service

Originally Posted by fritzl

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postal service

haha, yes I gather that! What I meant was in what way did he take his foot measurements? DIY job or did go a get it down professionally?