Legal Jobs?

Originally Posted by crazyquik

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Your yield on government agencies will be zero.

Your yield on firms will approach zero.

I would talk to your school's career services and get a list of alumni currently working in D.C. (any job or law firm job). Almost guaranteed the office has this.

Then, forget about any of the Biglaw firms that have official summer programs.

Google every 'unknown' (i.e., non-BigLaw) firm on the list and look at their website. The firms with 3-20 lawyers. Then send an email to the alumnus, not the hiring partner. Maybe it has a resume attached, but probably not. It's just a feeler/networking email saying you're also an alum of XYZ Law School and would like to stay in D.C. and want to get your foot in the door and maybe the two of you can have lunch and talk about the job market in D.C. He might have an opening, or be able to point you at someone who does, etc.

If you only stick to the jobs posted on your career services board, judicial clerkships, and other nationally advertised positions, you're basically boned.

This looks like great (even if somewhat dismal) advice. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

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Have you been working at all while in school, i.e. summer jobs, externships during the school year, etc? In other words, do you have any legal work experience that you'd bring to the table?

I haven't been working during school, but I've worked at a firm last summer and at the NY AG's office (then Cuomo) during my 1L summer. I also have some legal experience from before I started school. Why do you ask?

Originally Posted by sartorialism

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I haven't been working during school, but I've worked at a firm last summer and at the NY AG's office (then Cuomo) during my 1L summer. I also have some legal experience from before I started school. Why do you ask?

I was asking because (i) I was curious whether you would be able to bring anything to the table to those employers in terms of being able to hit the ground running, and (ii) was going to ask whether you've asked your former employers re: opportunities upon graduation.

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

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I was asking because (i) I was curious whether you would be able to bring anything to the table to those employers in terms of being able to hit the ground running, and (ii) was going to ask whether you've asked your former employers re: opportunities upon graduation.

1. Yes, I believe I could. 2. I don't want to work for the AG, and the firm I worked for last summer was an IP litigation firm. Fantastic as it was, they only hire engineers, and I'm no engineer. So nothing doing there either.

at least the economy is picking up for you. I graduated in 2010, had a few interviews, but ultimately started as associate with the small firm I worked for during school.

You have to make a niche for yourself, what is special about you that no one else has? it might be top 10% or it might be 10 years of construction experience, either way there are way too many middle of the pack liberal arts majors who did so-so in law school and have no special skills

Parents or important friends count as a skill, btw.

I am an alumnus of two very large, AmLaw 100 firms, and now am one of two partners at a very small firm. For the smaller firms, they really like people who can do things in-house that the firm normally outsources. You could get your foot in the door and quickly make yourself indispensable. The kinds of things I am thinking about would include, able to create and maintain a blog, able to update website, able to do some basic optimization, able to write press releases, able to write or ghost-write articles. Any high tech skills that you bring to the table will tend to make you a valuable get, especially if the firm is comprised of techno-phobes. Good luck!

Mark

Have you clerked with any firm while going to school?

I work at a boutique patent firm and the students who clerk here end up getting snatched up by a big firm rather quickly, or by the USPTO if that's the route they want to go.

Originally Posted by rohde88

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at least the economy is picking up for you. I graduated in 2010, had a few interviews, but ultimately started as associate with the small firm I worked for during school.

You have to make a niche for yourself, what is special about you that no one else has? it might be top 10% or it might be 10 years of construction experience, either way there are way too many middle of the pack liberal arts majors who did so-so in law school and have no special skills

Parents or important friends count as a skill, btw.

Big time.

Only reason I've got a guaranteed job on exit at the firm I'm working for now as a 2L. Don't be afraid to whore yourself out to friends and family. In this market it's sometimes the only way to find something worth doing.

If you're a member of a church/social group/anything and anyone you know tenuously "knows a lawyer" ask if they'll set up lunch.

Originally Posted by Alex C

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Big time.

Only reason I've got a guaranteed job on exit at the firm I'm working for now as a 2L. Don't be afraid to whore yourself out to friends and family. In this market it's sometimes the only way to find something worth doing.

If you're a member of a church/social group/anything and anyone you know tenuously "knows a lawyer" ask if they'll set up lunch.

yep, all great advice. The purpose of lunch isn't necessarily to get a job with that particular lawyer, but to find a lawyer who likes you as a person. They'll go to bat for you and setup other interviews that will lead to a job.

I look back on how I managed to get my legal work following school and there really isn't any lesson I could impart from it. I got my first work in the Public Defender's office following an internship through school, then a job at a small firm from a fellow graduate. Then moved to another firm after responding to a posting on the school's alumni job posting service. Then I got poached by another firm in town after doing well on a high profile case in the area, which is where I'm at now.

Certainly joining the local bar association and developing connections with other attorneys is a must. Even now, I make it a policy not to "dick around" other attorneys in the area. I'm very happy where I'm working but you never know what will happen in the future, and I'd rather face a market with firms of attorneys who respect me than attorneys who hold a grudge. I'm amazed at the number of attorneys who do act like dicks in some attempt to get one over. Do they just expect others to forget how they behaved? People can hold grudges a good long time, and you've got thirty or forty years to work and you'll probably run into the same people over and over again.

I'm rambling, but good luck.

Don't forget about allied professionals. If you want to do estate work or tax or business law, talk to CPAs and financial planners--they usually know and refer work to attorneys who might be hiring. Interested in litigation or personal injury? Talk to chiropractors or physicians or insurance agents. All these people tend to know and refer work to attorneys. If you work on building a network of allied professionals, they can point you towards jobs, and eventually they may send referrals to you directly, which is also extremely valuable.

Try the following places:

* Cravath, Swaine & Moore
* Davis Polk & Wardwell
* Latham & Watkins
* Sullivan & Cromwell
* White & Case
* Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton
* Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

...and of course, the crowd favourite and pioneer of the poison pill

* Skadden Arps

Good luck!

Originally Posted by VaderDave

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Don't forget about allied professionals. If you want to do estate work or tax or business law, talk to CPAs and financial planners--they usually know and refer work to attorneys who might be hiring. Interested in litigation or personal injury? Talk to chiropractors or physicians or insurance agents. All these people tend to know and refer work to attorneys. If you work on building a network of allied professionals, they can point you towards jobs, and eventually they may send referrals to you directly, which is also extremely valuable.

i know nothing about law, but think this is basically sound advice for any job seeker. Your network begets opportunities.

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

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I was asking because (i) I was curious whether you would be able to bring anything to the table to those employers in terms of being able to hit the ground running, and (ii) was going to ask whether you've asked your former employers re: opportunities upon graduation.

To the first part - I've never really understood that. With a few exceptions (states att. etc), you generally aren't allowed to do much of anything as a law student, especially anything that would really be helpful in a job once you graduate. Same goes for legal volunteering. IME the work you can do in law school really isn't going to do much to "help you hit the ground running."

Originally Posted by rohde88

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at least the economy is picking up for you. I graduated in 2010, had a few interviews, but ultimately started as associate with the small firm I worked for during school.

Parents or important friends count as a skill, btw.

You actually had it pretty well. I knew almost no one who had a job upon graduating, and a large chunk of the people I graduated with are still without work (myself included).
And second part is definitely true. Actually its probably the best "skill" you can have.

Also-
Anyone have any suggestions as far as alternative jobs? I've been looking into it lately, mostly jobs relating to contracts and other transactional work (was my focus in law school) with little luck. Most are looking for experience that I have no way of getting...

An "alternative job" I was able to get w/just my law degree and no experience, and do for 1.5 years until I finally got a real lawyer job, was as a Contract Specialist w/the government. I think DCMA has a Chicago office that is probably still hiring despite all the hiring freezes, etc. On the other hand, these jobs will not help you get a "real" lawyer job aside from getting your foot in the door with a government agency (or a big defense contractor, possibly). It paid the bills but was not exciting and definitely did not make much use of my law degree.

Originally Posted by Zobo

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Try the following places:

* Cravath, Swaine & Moore
* Davis Polk & Wardwell
* Latham & Watkins
* Sullivan & Cromwell
* White & Case
* Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton
* Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

...and of course, the crowd favourite and pioneer of the poison pill

* Skadden Arps

Good luck!

lol worst 1st post ever