How much do you work?

Originally Posted by munchausen

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Most weeks, 40-50 hrs. But then I will have a month with three or four trials and find myself working 60-70 hours weeks. Still a decent schedule for a lawyer. I don't see how the people who work 60 hours every week do it.

I don't know how people do it. I'm applying to law school this fall and this aspect scares me to death. Hell, I think 40 hours a week is too much. It's what put me off from applying last year... I looked into medic or firefighting since they have more relaxed schedules and also work towards the public good. My naive youthfulness still thinks I'll find a relaxed law job in the future that meets the same criteria.

Originally Posted by skitlets

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I don't know how people do it. I'm applying to law school this fall and this aspect scares me to death. Hell, I think 40 hours a week is too much. It's what put me off from applying last year...

Different values of time.

I am lucky enough to work at seemingly the only firm in my industry that pays overtime--some people work a straight 9-5 and take their full hour for lunch every day unless there is some major deadline. I try to get in before 9, never leave right at 5, and feel like I am wasting time if I take an entire hour for lunch. Still there are others who make to the free dinner and cab deadline every night and work every weekend.

Some of it is just that the people earning zero OT feel they make enough money that the marginal dollar isn't with the marginal loss of an hour of free time. The other bit is that once you get used to a schedule, it is easy to stick to it...and once you are used to a paycheck size, it is hard to cut it back.

Originally Posted by otc

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Different values of time.

This might be it. I need so much sleep/downtime that an 8 hour workday seems too long. I struggle to find the energy to go to the gym or make dinner when I have to work the occasional 5 days instead of 4. I've struggled with getting enough sleep all my life.

Originally Posted by poorsod

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Is this part of your regular gig or are you moonlighting a lot? You are attending now right? I had a friend who did research work during the day but moonlighted at night and weekends to pay the bills. He was always working.

Hospitalist

The additional weekend was paid overtime/bonus since my workplace frequently needs extra bodies. My clinical work isn't terribly stressful, but I'm completely overloaded on teaching rounds, medical student lectures, etc. for the past month. I have leftovers from Sunday still sitting in our communal fridge. Most private practice IM attendings I know either work less hours and are paid significantly less, or have crazy busy schedules. NY has to be one of the worst states to practice medicine.

Low deal/project flow = 40-45 hrs a week, high deal/project flow = 70 hrs a week. But really most of the time it's quiet and weekends are ultra rare. If you count biz trips it can get bad with business dinners, late team meetings at the hotel, etc... One time at an old job on a biz trip I was probably doing 16 hours a day of straight work, for 3 weeks with only two half days off.

Love the current gig.

68 hours a week, summertime and xmas even more.

Originally Posted by skitlets

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I don't know how people do it. I'm applying to law school this fall and this aspect scares me to death. Hell, I think 40 hours a week is too much. It's what put me off from applying last year... I looked into medic or firefighting since they have more relaxed schedules and also work towards the public good. My naive youthfulness still thinks I'll find a relaxed law job in the future that meets the same criteria.

I wouldn't worry about that, as you are going to wash out of law school before the 2nd semester.

Accounting student working at a small firm during busy season.

January - 40/week.
February: 40-55/week.
March: 40-55/week.
April: unknown (but expected to be 50-60).

Not bad

sun-10-6
mon-thur-10-8
fri-10-3/5
sat night sometimes 3-5hrs

1-3 classes in college per sem

too f-ing much to do

Originally Posted by skitlets

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I don't know how people do it. I'm applying to law school this fall and this aspect scares me to death. Hell, I think 40 hours a week is too much. It's what put me off from applying last year... I looked into medic or firefighting since they have more relaxed schedules and also work towards the public good. My naive youthfulness still thinks I'll find a relaxed law job in the future that meets the same criteria.

If it scares you, I hope you aren't taking out any loans, because the most likely job you would find to fit that bill are some public sector (i.e., government) positions.

If you come out with $100 - $200 thousand in debt, you better be willing to pull many hours for many years just to pay back the debt, not to mention (a) succeed, (b) advance, or (c) save money for life.

My job tip, which I've touted on these boards a few times: non-profit development work. Sweet hours, not terrible pay, amazing working conditions. It's my wife's (former) field. Had I known about it when I was in my 20s, I would've beat a path in that direction.

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

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If it scares you, I hope you aren't taking out any loans, because the most likely job you would find to fit that bill are some public sector (i.e., government) positions.

If you come out with $100 - $200 thousand in debt, you better be willing to pull many hours for many years just to pay back the debt, not to mention (a) succeed, (b) advance, or (c) save money for life.

My job tip, which I've touted on these boards a few times: non-profit development work. Sweet hours, not terrible pay, amazing working conditions. It's my wife's (former) field. Had I known about it when I was in my 20s, I would've beat a path in that direction.

I'm not afraid of taking on loans with income based repayment and loan forgiveness, if public sector work is what I'd end up doing. I agree though, it'd be silly to take on >100k in debt to make 55k a year.

Please do tell about non-profit development work. Perhaps a PM?

I work as an executive in a small consulting firm and easily work 60 hours a week. If you want to be successful it seems to me you have to put in the time...at least in the States.

In by 11 out by 4 usually Monday to Thursday. 10 to 1 PM on Fridays. But I work from home a lot too.

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

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If it scares you, I hope you aren't taking out any loans, because the most likely job you would find to fit that bill are some public sector (i.e., government) positions.

If you come out with $100 - $200 thousand in debt, you better be willing to pull many hours for many years just to pay back the debt, not to mention (a) succeed, (b) advance, or (c) save money for life.

My job tip, which I've touted on these boards a few times: non-profit development work. Sweet hours, not terrible pay, amazing working conditions. It's my wife's (former) field. Had I known about it when I was in my 20s, I would've beat a path in that direction.

Good call. Usually one of the higher paying positions at any non-profit (not saying much), and at the high end very well compensated.

Originally Posted by imatlas

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Good call. Usually one of the higher paying positions at any non-profit (not saying much), and at the high end very well compensated.

Originally Posted by skitlets

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Please do tell about non-profit development work. Perhaps a PM?

From a previous post of mine on Styleforum: I've touted this field before on SF, but my wife's career track would be great: development work (i.e., fundraising for non-profits). Here are some advantages...

1. It's counter-cyclical, as non-profits must hire to raise money when times are tough.

2. If you're very, very good and high level, you can do well ($500k is not unheard of), though most people are in high five figures where we live (NYC area). Her boss probably makes $150k with a free car and free tuition for her son at a private school (i.e., worth another $50k). If you want to make it a career track, you can get an MBA in development; a former colleague of my wife's is at Yale and will soon be a consultant.

3. There's a weird ethic of taking care of your employees, so even the most benign bosses are considered ruthless and cruel, and are often moved along. Firing someone is extremely rare. My wife hates her boss yet gets anniversary gifts and Christmas gifts from her that routinely cost $100+. If you do not go out of your way to make employees feel welcome, you are considered a tyrant. Consequently, everyone is supposed to be really nice to each other.

4. It's absolutely filled with women, so there are plenty of opportunities to hook up and easy advancement as they quit to have kids, as my wife just did.

5. They have some amazing perks at time. My wife gets 7 weeks of vacation and about 20 holidays. Others get 1.5 time off if they work after hours. If you work at a university, you often get free tuition to take classes (my wife has former colleagues who got free grad or professional school degrees; former co-workers father got a late-in-life degree from Yale). Free food and booze are common. My wife just quit and got paid extra to come in for a few hours to train her replacement, something that would be considered the norm in any other field.

6. The hours are shocking. My wife works 9 - 4:30. In summer, she gets Fridays off. She never works nights or weekends and if she did, she'd get more time off.

7. One type of development work -- major gift officers -- is basically traveling around and schmoozing with rich people in the hopes they cough up big checks. All you do is eat at nice restaurants and chat up richies and oldies. It's considered one of the "tougher" jobs in the field.

8. If you want, you can work for a "save the world" non-profit in line with whatever your interests or beliefs are. You'll feel good about yourself. You can afford to be snooty: "I would never work for such a mediocre Ivy league school!" Or work for another non-profit that others love and it makes your life good -- a friend worked at a NYC animal hospital and tearful donors would stroll and and say "you saved my beloved pooch -- here's $100,000 and a bunch of gift cards for the staff!"

9. You don't need any special skills other than decent writing, organizing and better-than-average people skills.

10. If you work for universities, you can live in relatively inexpensive college towns and extend your youth.

Seriously, it's like the world's best kept secret.

If interested and still at school, stroll into their development office and say you would like to learn more about the field. Maybe even volunteer. Schools often hire their recent grads into (low-paying) positions, which will then allow you to move wherever you like -- other schools, hospitals, charities of all stripes, arts organizations, religious organizations, etc. There's great mobility, so that if you decide one day "I think I'd like to live where it's warm" you can look for jobs in Florida or Arizona and there's no impediment to you going. Unlike law, where you're sort of stuck where you are.

Originally Posted by skitlets

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I'm not afraid of taking on loans with income based repayment and loan forgiveness, if public sector work is what I'd end up doing. I agree though, it'd be silly to take on >100k in debt to make 55k a year.

Loan forgiveness is more limited than you might think. I'd investigate very, very carefully. You might say "I can live on 55k" but what happens in 7 years when you're married with a baby and want to buy a house, you make as much as a public school teacher and have a huge debt load that is only partly forgiven and hangs over you preventing you from moving on to something more lucrative or into a job you like? Remember, most lawyers want to change careers, and I say that as a lawyer.