conservative business dress WAYWRN: An Experiment

Really nice suit Manton (though I know comfort is an issue with this one). Btw, is that tie from Hober? - pretty sure I have the same one.

I personally only wear ties with two colors maximum at work. I feel that a tie with three or more colors can be a bit busy and even distracting but I can certainly understand how others might feel differently.

Throwing my hat into the ring. Here is what I wore today. You'll have to excuse the lousy iPhone bathroom shot because I don't have a proper full-length mirror and my point&shoot is on loan to my dad. Also, before anyone says "needs pocket square," explain to me why it's necessary.

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Really nice suit Manton (though I know comfort is an issue with this one). Btw, is that tie from Hober? - pretty sure I have the same one.
Yeah, Hober.

Originally Posted by elgreco

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Also, before anyone says "needs pocket square," explain to me why it's necessary.

Because they look better than their absense.

You look pretty good. I would prefer the scale of the shirt stripe to be a bit narrower.

These stripes are just too thick IMO. Looks like pyjamas

Originally Posted by Manton

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Mid gray 15 ounce shark, pale blue broadcloth, Irish poplin tie, white linen hank, brown croc belt, blue w/red check wool socks, brown shell rain boots:

I didn't think the shell boots went that well with your coat tonight

Originally Posted by SpooPoker

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Thanks for all your comments today guys - Really appreciate it. Seems conservative business dress is not for me. Carry on

Originally Posted by SpooPoker

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I just dont "get" conservative business dress. I would feel as out of place wearing this sort of thing every day as Manton would in a Tom Ford suit and Versace tie. Horses for courses.
I am going to wax philosophical or, possibly, spout BS. Like Japanese poetry, conservative business dress seems, at first glance, restrictive and formulaic. But in the hands of someone immersed in the art, it can be immensely expressive. This thread has demonstrated that, if nothing else. When all of the elements work together in the right balance, some of these outfits hum like a tuning fork. To extend the mixed metaphor even further, Spoo . . . or is it a simile? . . . anyway, Spoo, you are like a musician who can play one kind of music but has no interest in experimenting with other musical styles. Most good musicians may be experts in one particular area but enjoy trying to master others. They often find that, apart from being enjoyable, their versatility makes them a better classical violinist, or whatever. You may not "get" conservative business dress but you should want to get it. The more you don't get it, the more intrigued you should be at what is going on in Manton's head. You should be seeking to develop and discipline your obvious talents. Developing an appreciation for and understanding of conservative business dress is an excellent way to do that. You say that conservative business dress is not for you and that you would feel "out of place wearing this sort of thing every day." Perhaps. But are you not intrigued by the idea of mastering the aesthetic? I do not wear black tie every day but I am very interested in understanding it and I also recognize that, far from being out of place, there are circumstances when nothing else will do. The hallmark of sophistication is adaptability. If you are comfortable -- or only capable of -- dressing only one way, albeit very "nicely," are you really any different than people who wear cargo shorts and flip flops all the time? Foo is an extreme example of this. He has an incredible eye for many things, especially fit. But he has intentionally established a narrow comfort zone for himself and, so, he will never progress much beyond where he is right now. He is like a musician who has dedicated himself entirely to mastering a single piece of music. He may well play it better then anyone else has ever played it before, but it is all a bit sad when you consider what else he might have done with all that skill and talent. I probably shouldn't pick on you but this is an example of why I think SF could still have its best days ahead of it. Many people here have developed "their" look and profess to feel they don't have that much more to learn. But to me, this is where it gets interesting. Now that I have a very basic understanding of some of the principles, there are whole new sartorial worlds to explore. I may never be able to succesfully master the style well enough to pass for a Southern Trad or a Milanese or a Parisian. But the sartorial "culture" is fascinating to learn about, nonetheless. And if I happen to be in Paris on a Sunday afternoon when there is no one around to see, you can bet I will try.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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These stripes are just too thick IMO. Looks like pyjamas

Funny you should say that; Harvie & Hudson (where the shirt is from) originally started some of their shirtings from pajama fabrics.

Either way, purely personal preference. I like that thick stripe because it gets to be my one ultra-bold element when I want the rest of my attire to be muted.

Originally Posted by Bounder

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I am going to wax philosophical or, possibly, spout BS.

Like Japanese poetry, conservative business dress seems, at first glance, restrictive and formulaic. But in the hands of someone immersed in the art, it can be immensely expressive. This thread has demonstrated that, if nothing else. When all of the elements work together in the right balance, some of these outfits hum like a tuning fork.

To extend the mixed metaphor even further, Spoo . . . or is it a simile? . . . anyway, Spoo, you are like a musician who can play one kind of music but has no interest in experimenting with other musical styles. Most good musicians may be experts in one particular area but enjoy trying to master others. They often find that, apart from being enjoyable, their versatility makes them a better classical violinist, or whatever.

You may not "get" conservative business dress but you should want to get it. The more you don't get it, the more intrigued you should be at what is going on in Manton's head. You should be seeking to develop and discipline your obvious talents. Developing an appreciation for and understanding of conservative business dress is an excellent way to do that.

You say that conservative business dress is not for you and that you would feel "out of place wearing this sort of thing every day." Perhaps. But are you not intrigued by the idea of mastering the aesthetic? I do not wear black tie every day but I am very interested in understanding it and I also recognize that, far from being out of place, there are circumstances when nothing else will do.

The hallmark of sophistication is adaptability. If you are comfortable -- or only capable of -- dressing only one way, albeit very "nicely," are you really any different than people who wear cargo shorts and flip flops all the time?

Foo is an extreme example of this. He has an incredible eye for many things, especially fit. But he has intentionally established a narrow comfort zone for himself and, so, he will never progress much beyond where he is right now. He is like a musician who has dedicated himself entirely to mastering a single piece of music. He may well play it better then anyone else has ever played it before, but it is all a bit sad when you consider what else he might have done with all that skill and talent.

I probably shouldn't pick on you but this is an example of why I think SF could still have its best days ahead of it. Many people here have developed "their" look and profess to feel they don't have that much more to learn. But to me, this is where it gets interesting. Now that I have a very basic understanding of some of the principles, there are whole new sartorial worlds to explore. I may never be able to succesfully master the style well enough to pass for a Southern Trad or a Milanese or a Parisian. But the sartorial "culture" is fascinating to learn about, nonetheless. And if I happen to be in Paris on a Sunday afternoon when there is no one around to see, you can bet I will try.

I concur. I try to be eclectic, myself. I like to do FU, but I also enjoy conservative business dress. Actually, I have been moving more towards conservative business dress as time goes by. I think it all has the same root. I approach it like I approach guitar. The blues scale is the basis for everything I play...but it is not all blues. It can be rock, hard rock, straight blues, metal, etc.. But it is all grounded in the same 5 notes.

Mike

Originally Posted by Manton

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Mid gray 15 ounce shark, pale blue broadcloth, Irish poplin tie, white linen hank, brown croc belt, blue w/red check wool socks, brown shell rain boots:

this is all good...

Originally Posted by Manton

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Nah, that would ruin it.

That's sort of a throwback to a BB-esque look. You would have seen this all over NYC in the '50s & '60s. I mean not exactly that, but patch flannel + OCBD + wool tie + gunboats, sure.

Right vox?

The shirt throws it off the most because there is no way to press those seams flat. I bet if I had worn my pinpoint BD, which presses up much more crisply, everyone would be fine with it.

While he's old enough to have been around then, he might be too old to remember it clearly.

I think the only element that might raise eyebrows in a conservative business dress environment is the cognac color of the shoes. No. 8 shell bluchers - cap toed or plain toed - would blend right in, but those light shoes with a dark suit read flamboyant. To me that's fine, but I'm not sure how they go over in an office.

Originally Posted by Manton

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It photographs well. Wearing it is another matter.

I think the silhouette is a tad slimmer than ideal, especially when compared to your other stuff. That gorge is a little high, too.

Originally Posted by Bounder

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I am going to wax philosophical or, possibly, spout BS...

Hmm. Im trying to think how to start, and how to put it best.

First, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful observations - and I do like your metaphors. Im not saying I dont appreciate it - please let that be clear. I enjoy seeing good conservative business dress fits. I appreciate the logic behind them, and I have learned much from observing those who do conservative business dress best.

However, my workplace is not conservative, my personal style is not conservative, and I enjoy being a little louder and flashier than most. Adaptability? Sure, I can do sedate. I dont do it often, but I do. Maybe not to the "rules" as you see most of the posters here following, but its not all green and purple windowpane jackets and navy blue shoes for me

If you want to speak metaphorically, I listen to classical, I listen to rap, and I listen to 80's power ballads. Rarely do I get in the car and blast Beethoven, but when I am in the mood to, I do and I enjoy it. That does not mean I dont appreciate the creative process that went into writing the song, it just means its not what makes me happy listening to every day. And above all, isnt that the most important thing?

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Yesterday, the shirt and shoes were pushing the conservative business dress envelope. Today, it's the suit and shoes. I know, a white linen square would be "better".

Links are awesome.

Originally Posted by Big Bird

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Talking about regional differences. About ten years ago as a young impressionable professional at a very conservative Investment Bank I was instilled that wearing a shirt with breast pocket together with a suit was unacceptable. What is the view on this rule in different regions?

IMO, it's a personal call. I personally try not to buy shirts that have chest pockets -- they're just never made properly on RTW stuff. If your coat's buttoned and everything fits properly, your chest pocket shouldn't be seen anyway. A shirt without a chest pocket is more formal, but is it a huge "offense" to wear shirts with pockets? No.

Originally Posted by Bounder

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The hallmark of sophistication is adaptability. If you are comfortable -- or only capable of -- dressing only one way, albeit very "nicely," are you really any different than people who wear cargo shorts and flip flops all the time?


Yes, different and better.