Ghosts?

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

Click to expand...

you mentioned it first and then you say you dont like to think about it. can you tell us what you saw that was truly terrifying? please?

i'll be your best friend?
I made a mistake. I shouldn't of said anything. You guys would probably laugh anyway if I described what it kind of resembled. Sorry for taking part in this thread. I honestly don't want to go into detail. I really don't like talking about it and this is the first time I mentioned this to anyone in years since it happened. Once again, sorry.

Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto

Click to expand...

I made a mistake. I shouldn't of said anything. You guys would probably laugh anyway if I described what it kind of resembled.

Sorry for taking part in this thread. I honestly don't want to go into detail. I really don't like talking about it and this is the first time I mentioned this to anyone in years since it happened. Once again, sorry.

dam man. i wouldnt laugh at it cuz i know you would be sincere. but no worries. im really curious now what it is. but most likely it may be something related to your personal history? so we wont be able to understand anyways.

however, hope all is well man. i hope i dont ever experience anything like this. sounds bad. best wishes.

you're already thinking about it anyway, might as well tell us. please??? promise not to laugh!

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

What about Jesus' words to the penitent thief, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23, 43)?

This is actually a mistranslation and when rewritten the translator misplaced the comma
It should read:

Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23, 43)?

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

As to ghosts and related phenomena being demonic deceptions, it's hard to see what demons would accomplish by banging around as poltergeists or drifting around as wraiths in empty rooms in old houses. I doubt many souls would be seduced to Hell by such goings on. Getting them to peruse Internet Appreciation sites would be incomparably more efficacious these days, I should think.

Well the more obvious reasoning behind the deception is that it completely undermines the word of God which would discredit the Bible as a whole. I wont get into theosophy or spiritualism, you can do your own research but lets just say that the devil works in very small steps in creating very large movements of deception.

Originally Posted by RJman

Click to expand...

Dude, less talk, more haunt.

Word.

Your last avatar was so appropriate for this thread.

Have a couple stories.

Will share later.

Originally Posted by Seeaann

Click to expand...

This is actually a mistranslation and when rewritten the translator misplaced the comma
It should read:

Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23, 43)?

Well, since they didn't have punctuation marks like commas in antiquity, I don't know where you get that business about the misplaced comma. And what do you mean by "the translator"? Your version flies in the face of the plain meaning of the text of the Greek original, and I couldn't find any variant readings in the critical apparatus of a scholarly edition of the Greek Testament that I consulted. I note that St. Jerome, who I am sure was much more fluent in Greek than I, gives it the customary wording, as did the translators of the King James Version and, for that matter, the Jerusalem Bible.

What are you? A Jehovah's Witness or something similar?

For that matter, why would Jesus ask such a question if he knew full well that he wouldn't be with him if your psychopannychian eschatology is correct?

(And I bet this is the first time in the history of SF that anybody has used the word "psychopannychian"!

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

(And I bet this is the first time in the history of SF that anybody has used the word "psychopannychian"!
I thought I was clever knowing and occasionally using 'eschatololgy', though having less Greek than (my almost non-existent) Latin I had to google psychopannychian. And I'm glad I did too. By the way, I am meant to be going on a pretty serious (scientific) paranormal investigation this weekend, may post if anything of interest occurs.

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

Well, since they didn't have punctuation marks like commas in antiquity, I don't know where you get that business about the misplaced comma. And what do you mean by "the translator"? Your version flies in the face of the plain meaning of the text of the Greek original, and I couldn't find any variant readings in the critical apparatus of a scholarly edition of the Greek Testament that I consulted. I note that St. Jerome, who I am sure was much more fluent in Greek than I, gives it the customary wording, as did the translators of the King James Version and, for that matter, the Jerusalem Bible.

What are you? A Jehovah's Witness or something similar?

For that matter, why would Jesus ask such a question if he knew full well that he wouldn't be with him if your psychopannychian eschatology is correct?

(And I bet this is the first time in the history of SF that anybody has used the word "psychopannychian"!

+1

Thank you for stating this JLib (and for bringing psychopannychia into the SF lexicon).

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

Well, since they didn't have punctuation marks like commas in antiquity, I don't know where you get that business about the misplaced comma. And what do you mean by "the translator"? Your version flies in the face of the plain meaning of the text of the Greek original, and I couldn't find any variant readings in the critical apparatus of a scholarly edition of the Greek Testament that I consulted. I note that St. Jerome, who I am sure was much more fluent in Greek than I, gives it the customary wording, as did the translators of the King James Version and, for that matter, the Jerusalem Bible.

What are you? A Jehovah's Witness or something similar?

For that matter, why would Jesus ask such a question if he knew full well that he wouldn't be with him if your psychopannychian eschatology is correct?

(And I bet this is the first time in the history of SF that anybody has used the word "psychopannychian"!

Koine Greek had no punctuation so it was an error of translation whether intentional or not. Why would Jesus say to the thief on the cross that he would be with him in heaven that very day when not only did Jesus not go to heaven that day but neither the next day because Jesus was resting in the grave the next day. In fact , Jesus didnt rise again until the third day as prophesied. He gave up the spirit or the breath of life on the first day, rested in the grave on the Sabbath, and was resurrected again on the third day.

And that last part should give you a hint as to what church I follow.

Why is that now that we have a myriad of superior monitoring technologies, and seem to have budget to constantly go searching for these ghosts (e.g. ghost hunting shows), we still ALWAYS come up short?

I am convinced all previous photographic evidence captured in the past are hoaxes.

JLib .. large enough as I recall. just one of those unexplained things prob nothing to do with the Koori guys. that's just colourful conjecture. story is true tho', all of it.

Originally Posted by Seeaann

Click to expand...

Koine Greek had no punctuation so it was an error of translation whether intentional or not. Why would Jesus say to the thief on the cross that he would be with him in heaven that very day when not only did Jesus not go to heaven that day but neither the next day because Jesus was resting in the grave the next day. In fact , Jesus didnt rise again until the third day as prophesied. He gave up the spirit or the breath of life on the first day, rested in the grave on the Sabbath, and was resurrected again on the third day.

And that last part should give you a hint as to what church I follow.

Do you know any Greek at all? I have the Greek text of Luke right in front of me, and there is no way what Jesus said can be an interrogative.

Moreover, Jesus wasn't "resting in the grave" between the Crucifixion and the Resurrection. He went down to Hell and harrowed it. I Peter 3:18. According to many traditions, it was at this point he liberated all the righteous souls of the Old Covenant, but this cannot be proven from Scripture, of course. Presumably they were in a better place than the wicked, so this may be what Jesus means by "the paradise" in the Greek original. Many scholars interpret this to mean this place of the departed spirits.

Do you follow the Apostles' Creed, which specifically states that Jesus "descended into Hell"?

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

As long as we are talking about weird stuff, what are your views on ghosts? Some of the most otherwise hard-headed, pragmatic individuals I have known claim to have seen ghosts and experienced related phenomena. In addition, their existence has been just about universally accepted in all human cultures around the globe. I have never seen a ghost, but I will listen respectfully and open-mindedly to anyone who claims he or she has--far moreso than if an individual claims to have encountered Bigfoot or UFOs and ETs, for example. Your thoughts?

Have you been haunted by ghosts of drunk-fingered-girls past?

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Click to expand...

Do you know any Greek at all? I have the Greek text of Luke right in front of me, and there is no way what Jesus said can be an interrogative.

Moreover, Jesus wasn't "resting in the grave" between the Crucifixion and the Resurrection. He went down to Hell and harrowed it. I Peter 3:18. According to many traditions, it was at this point he liberated all the righteous souls of the Old Covenant, but this cannot be proven from Scripture, of course. Presumably they were in a better place than the wicked, so this may be what Jesus means by "the paradise" in the Greek original. Many scholars interpret this to mean this place of the departed spirits.

Do you follow the Apostles' Creed, which specifically states that Jesus "descended into Hell"?

Well you're changing the subject a bit now so let me get back to the main topic. Before Jesus promises the thief of paradise, the thief says to Jesus: "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." Keyword here is "remember" You see, everyone during Jesus day knew about the resurrection of the just and unjust and the day of judgement. This is why when Lazarus was resurrected from the dead, none even thought of asking Lazarus "what was it like to be dead?" because they all knew that when one dies he give ups the breath of life and "the dead know nothing" they are in a state of 'sleep' or 'rest'. The thief was asking Jesus to remember him when Jesus returned to earth during the 'second coming' when Jesus would come to give all men what they deserved according to their judgement. And so because the thief acted in faith, which is the way one is saved, Jesus promised the thief that day on the cross that he would see paradise, and paradise is synonomous with Eden. For the earth will be recreated after it is cleansed by fire and Eden will be restored on this planet,

Isaiah 56
17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.

Revelation 21
1. Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

As to 1 Peter 3:18 and onward, the word 'spirits' is never used in the bible to refer to deceased people but always refers to angelic beings, therefore, evil spirits are nothing more than fallen angels or demons. The word prison is a term that Bible uses to describe the state that the fallen angels are in, for Satan and a third of the angels were kicked out of heaven, they were bound here on earth as if in prison.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I really cant comment on the other stuff you mention because it isnt Biblical, its traditional doctrine, and I go by the Bible only.

Less talk about obscure ancient writing, more haunt.