conservative business dress WAYWRN: An Experiment

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Maybe its just my budget monitor, but isn't that a solid brown coat (albeit with a h-bone pattern)? If so, why would a checked shirt be 'busy'?

It's not solid. True, the pattern is not loud, but it's just loud enough to make checks a bit hard. I'm not saying it would necessarily look bad, just that I'm not sure I would like it.

In any case, I don't have any decent winter check shirts.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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I have never encountered a business environment where pocket squares were not appropriate. In France, nop one would even notice a square unless it's particularly flashy. In London, I saw many people without squares but also many with - I don't think anyone really cares. In NYC, squares seem to be somewhat frequent in financial and legal circles although they're clearly not prevalent, and tend to be worn by more senior people - which may create a little bit of an awkward feeling for younger workers. That said, no one ever made a comment to me (in an ultra conservative business dress environment) about wearing a fairly sober square, even when I was quite junior. Brown shoes on the other hand attracted a lot of comments - and even an express prohibition to wear brown shoes to client meetings with one specific senior guy.

I don't know if it's time or place but I see a lot of squares in Manhattan these days. Six years ago when I moved back here, I remember seeing very few. I saw close to none in DC. Where I worked there, no one wore them except me and one other guy who was a huge A&S customer. His attire drew a lot of comments. My boss sometimes remarked on my squares.

I have never had anyone say anything about brown shoes. I think Americans are used to non-black dress shoes. When I was growing up, #8 shell was considered the ultimate dressy shoe. We called it "oxblood." The only times my father wore black shoes was with black tie or to a funeral; that is, until later in his career when doing business with fancy people from LA and back east.

Originally Posted by Manton

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In any case, I don't have any decent winter check shirts.

Have Carl or Mike special order these for you:

Originally Posted by Manton

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This is as good a test as any. If wearing a bow tie makes you known as "that bow tie guy," don't do it. If it's, "Oh, that's Brenin, he's a lawyer. Yeah, he likes bow ties." That's OK.

Well, I meant at a new firm. I am know at my firm as the guy who dresses up. To call our firm slovenly would be giving it too much credit, in all sincerity. Thing is, I don't feel professional going to work dressed in weekend or "after work" attire. When we have a client in the office, or a deposition going on, etc. an e-mail is circulated telling people to dress decently. It is that bad.

I actually get the most postive comments on the bow ties. At our Christmas party we had a charity auction and I included a couple of bows with private lessons on tying them included. It was a big hit.

Originally Posted by sellahi22

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Finally MC has a true analogue to the SW&D waywt thread.

In the SW&D one, people post outfits that they wear when hanging out casually. In this thread, people post outfits that they wear to work. In both threads, people are posting stuff that they wear in real life, and the outfits are judged by real life standards.

The main MC "waywt" has no such real life connection. It's become mostly a bunch of guys peacocking for their friends on the internet, trying to win friday costume theme challenges etc.


Yes and no. I wear my WAYWRN fits to work. But, like I said above...I can get away with anything at my firm. Sometimes if my boss is around, he will call my getup a "costume," but that is because he enjoys harping on me, and does not even know that a brown belt with black shoes is a Faux Pas. Of course, I generally reserve the louder things for days when he is away.

If anything, the presence of my clothes has worn off on my coworkers. Some have actually stepped up their games. I see E-Bay packages of clothes arriving regularly these days. One guy has even tried to carve out a niche for himself by wearing hats to the office..which while comical, is certainly a move in the right direction in my book.

Mike

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Have Carl or Mike special order these for you:
To me, those are too refined for tweed.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I think a little of this is useful. It's interesting to learn what flies and what does not in various regions and industries (and combinations thereof.
I think comparing and contrasting conservative business dress in different environments will be fascinating and could really give the entire concept behind this thread some legs. I have already been surprised by the general acceptance of bow ties in the Southern U.S.. I knew that bow ties were "more common" in the Southern U.S. but I had thought it was in the sense that giant pandas are "more common" in China.

What I hope this does not become is purely a thread about dress codes. It should rather be a thread about dressing well. Ascending from the dress code.

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I think this thread should partially be about developing and elaborating the "rules" that link all these "conservative business dress" looks together. I find "I know it when I see it" to be intellectually unsatisfying. After all, without rules, such discussions are impossible.

I think this thread needs a sticky.

Mike

I like the simplicity of the church fit, especially the shetland jacket. The #8 unlined pennies fit the conservative bill well.

The textures of the tweed jacket, OCBD shirt, knit tie, and flannel trou are a great way to make a solid getup interesting.

Originally Posted by Manton

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It's not solid. True, the pattern is not loud, but it's just loud enough to make checks a bit hard. I'm not saying it would necessarily look bad, just that I'm not sure I would like it.

Manton - out of curiosity, does this jacket have any actual brown colors to it? This is the Scabal, correct? Obviously the end result makes it look brown, but I have a "brown" herringbone jacket with W. Bill fabric as seen here that doesn't have any real brown colors to it. It's made up primarily of black, dark olive and dark lavender giving an overall brown impression.

Originally Posted by Manton

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The more I reflect on it, I think monochrome looks better with blues and grays than with browns and tans.
Completely agree. This is an important and often overlooked point. I think I started a thread ages ago asking why navy on sky blue worked whereas red on pink didn't. Some people suggested that tone on tone works well only at low colour temperatures -- they may well have been right. Apologies for the slight digression. This is an excellent thread idea, btw (this from a guy who doesn't even have to wear conservative business dress more than a handful of days per year).

Word to the wise, if that is a nice rug, you should not stand on it that way. Each foot all the way on or all the way off. You'll eventually cause some pretty ugly wear if you keep doing that.

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

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Manton - out of curiosity, does this jacket have any actual brown colors to it?

I thought of mentioning that. I think there is no actual brown thread in that coat. But all the constituent parts make it look brown. The colors come through reasonably true in the second pic.

Originally Posted by Manton

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It's not solid. True, the pattern is not loud, but it's just loud enough to make checks a bit hard. I'm not saying it would necessarily look bad, just that I'm not sure I would like it.

In any case, I don't have any decent winter check shirts.

Apart from solids, I think brown herringbone works with light/pale blue and white shirts in various patterns (accept herringbone itself, which would be a bit too much), because of the colour contrast"”from some distance it looks like a dark brown suit (or jacket) with a light blue shirt.

(Sorry, not my best pics, but hopefully good enough to make a judgment from.)



Puppytooth (twill) - Glenplaid (not sure what weave)
Stripe (oxford) - Gingham (oxford)

Although I don't know that I would call this conservative business dress, I was encouraged to post this here.

Sorry for the lighting issues.