Would you buy a Chinese car?

Originally Posted by digilypse

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Sorry, that rant was a bit uncalled for wasn't it? I was mainly looking at ClambakeSkate's post, the rest were perfectly civil. While "racist" would be perhaps a bit strong a term for what was said, it's very borderline.

When I make broad statements about China and the Chinese, it's purely a cultural definition and not racial. It's like how everyone says "All Americans are fat and stupid" or "All the French are cheese eating wimps". It just so happens that most people that live in China are Chinese which happens to also be a race.

I deal with the Chinese everyday, and what happens to the people in that country is fucked up, sorry. Yes, a huge part of that comes from westerners wanting cheaper and cheaper goods, but at the same time, the govt in China doesn't seem to have a lot of problems with 8 year old kids working 14 hour days in horrible conditions. After being under these types of conditions for so long the collective Chinese thought has become so skewed and fucked up to the point where now they are so hell-bent on world economic domination that it's scary. They're ******* everyone over without regard for the long term effects, simply because they have the power to do so and they're tire of being everyone else's *****.

I'm not saying that the US or other western countries don't suffer this type of greed, but in China, where the general population have even less of a say than those in a democracy (a debatable word for sure), and less care is put toward the well being of the people of the county, it just seems much much worse.

That is why I try not to buy Chinese products. It's the same reason I don't shop at Walmart. It's not a healthy economic structure.

I'd rather buy an Indian car (Jaguar)

Originally Posted by acidboy

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that is not true! those ****-eyes from honda, toyota and hyundai make good cars.


I drive a Hyundai! And it seems to work very well with my round eyes!

I would never buy one. There is a huge difference between China and Japan/Korea. I trust that the Japanese and Koreans actually make safe cars for the most part and have much better quality control. I own a 2005 Scion tC and haven't had a single problem with it in almost 6 years. I don't trust that the Chinese make safe cars, or quality cars for that matter. Also, the Chinese may be great when it comes to production numbers, but they have zero innovation when it comes to cars.

Originally Posted by imatlas

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Sorry, but this is BS. There are plenty of Chinese manufacturers of consumer goods who are producing very high quality goods. There's a lot of ignorance and fear about this issue - with good reason, of course, considering the very high profile cases of antifreeze laced toothpaste, etc, but it's just silly to paint the entire country with the same brush.

I was referring to chinese cars. You are right, though, that the Chinese do make some good products in other industries. But as it stands now, their cars are definitely not safe to drive.

Originally Posted by runner-guy

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I would never buy one. There is a huge difference between China and Japan/Korea. I trust that the Japanese and Koreans actually make safe cars for the most part and have much better quality control. I own a 2005 Scion tC and haven't had a single problem with it in almost 6 years. I don't trust that the Chinese make safe cars, or quality cars for that matter. Also, the Chinese may be great when it comes to production numbers, but they have zero innovation when it comes to cars.
Shouldn't you be out protesting instead of posting nonsense? The automotive industry in China is growing, and the domestic market must be saturated (everyone can afford a Chinese car) before China based mfgs. build better cars. Just wait it out dude. Bicycles, Motorcycles, boats, all industries once dominated by Western countries are now made in the Tiger countries. I believe only the Germans and Belgians have retained full mfg. capability in their automotive industry. The Italians, Americans, French, Swedes, and Brits all seem to have mysterious car parts made overseas as part of their production strategies.

Originally Posted by Pantisocrat

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Shouldn't you be out protesting instead of posting nonsense? The automotive industry in China is growing, and the domestic market must be saturated (everyone can afford a Chinese car) before China based mfgs. build better cars. Just wait it out dude. Bicycles, Motorcycles, boats, all industries once dominated by Western countries are now made in the Tiger countries. I believe only the Germans have retained full mfg. capability in their automotive industry. The Italians, Americans, French, Swedes, and Brits all seem to have mysterious car parts made overseas as part of their production strategies.

Wait a second. What's your argument on China and motorcycle?

Originally Posted by Pantisocrat

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Shouldn't you be out protesting instead of posting nonsense? The automotive industry in China is growing, and the domestic market must be saturated (everyone can afford a Chinese car) before China based mfgs. build better cars. Just wait it out dude. Bicycles, Motorcycles, boats, all industries once dominated by Western countries are now made in the Tiger countries. I believe only the Germans and Belgians have retained full mfg. capability in their automotive industry. The Italians, Americans, French, Swedes, and Brits all seem to have mysterious car parts made overseas as part of their production strategies.

Protesting because I don't want to buy a Chinese car? And no, I'm not going to wait it out. China will never catch up to domestic and Japanese makers in quality.

Originally Posted by runner-guy

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Protesting because I don't want to buy a Chinese car? And no, I'm not going to wait it out. China will never catch up to domestic and Japanese makers in quality.

"Never"?

I wouldn't say I would NEVER buy a Chinese car, but there are so many other cars I would buy before I bought a Chinese car.

In my view, China and Chinese manufacturing in general just seems to have a lack of a sense of craftsmanship and pride that Japanese, Korean and European manufacturers have. Americans HAD that, and they are slowly re-gaining it back, but I feel they strayed from it in the late 80's to late 90's when they tried to compete with the Japanese pumping out cheap ****** cars.

Originally Posted by ClambakeSkate

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When I make broad statements about China and the Chinese, it's purely a cultural definition and not racial. It's like how everyone says "All Americans are fat and stupid" or "All the French are cheese eating wimps". It just so happens that most people that live in China are Chinese which happens to also be a race.

I deal with the Chinese everyday, and what happens to the people in that country is fucked up, sorry. Yes, a huge part of that comes from westerners wanting cheaper and cheaper goods, but at the same time, the govt in China doesn't seem to have a lot of problems with 8 year old kids working 14 hour days in horrible conditions. After being under these types of conditions for so long the collective Chinese thought has become so skewed and fucked up to the point where now they are so hell-bent on world economic domination that it's scary. They're ******* everyone over without regard for the long term effects, simply because they have the power to do so and they're tire of being everyone else's *****.

I'm not saying that the US or other western countries don't suffer this type of greed, but in China, where the general population have even less of a say than those in a democracy (a debatable word for sure), and less care is put toward the well being of the people of the county, it just seems much much worse.

That is why I try not to buy Chinese products. It's the same reason I don't shop at Walmart. It's not a healthy economic structure.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I understand your point and why you would not want to support manufacturers that operate unethically. However, I hope that you can reevaluate the way you look at China and Chinese culture.

There's no real difference between the Chinese as a "culture" and a "race" since race doesn't exist biologically, but rather is socially defined, as is culture. Both terms serve merely to conveniently group people together. Furthermore, much like how genetics are too varied and fluid across humanity to allow for the definition of biological race, culture exists among individuals, not collectively; it probably better thought of as a kind of social proficiency rather than a set way of thinking. Just like anywhere else, China has a diverse collection of individuals with diverse ideals, morals, and viewpoints. You can argue about the semantics of the word "racism", but prejudice aimed a culturally or nationally defined group is still prejudice. Saying that all Americans are stupid and all French are cowards is equally ignorant (when said seriously, not as a joke). These prejudices have a strong, biasing influence on the way we perceive members of these groups.

Saying that "the collective Chinese thought has become so skewed and fucked up to the point where now they are so hell-bent on world economic domination that it's scary" is similar to saying that after slavery the collective Black thought has become so skewed and fucked to the point now where all they can do is steal and live off the system - after all, that's just their culture, right? I get where you are coming from with the idea of a Chinese inferiority complex, but to demonize 1/6th of the world's population as though they are a collective hive-mind bent on domination is absurd. Most people just hope for a comfortable life. Many are activists trying to do good for society in the face of overwhelming greed and corruption.

Many businessmen and politicians are entirely deserving of your vitriol - the vast majority of Chinese, including many other businessmen and politicians, are not.

As far your reasons for not buying Chinese-made products - I don't disagree at all. It isn't a healthy environment, no, and there are plenty of valid reasons to be concerned about China's rise in power. Your last two paragraphs I completely agree with.

Are catalytic converters still optional on Geely's?

What about cars made by companies owned by Chinese enterprises? For example Volvo which is owned by Geely Enterprises.

Originally Posted by Bill Smith

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What about cars made by companies owned by Chinese enterprises? For example Volvo which is owned by Geely Enterprises.

Yabbut they're assembled by trustworthy Nordic types. Sometimes known as Aryans.

Originally Posted by digilypse

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Thank you for your thoughtful response. I understand your point and why you would not want to support manufacturers that operate unethically. However, I hope that you can reevaluate the way you look at China and Chinese culture.

There's no real difference between the Chinese as a "culture" and a "race" since race doesn't exist biologically, but rather is socially defined, as is culture. Both terms serve merely to conveniently group people together. Furthermore, much like how genetics are too varied and fluid across humanity to allow for the definition of biological race, culture exists among individuals, not collectively; it probably better thought of as a kind of social proficiency rather than a set way of thinking. Just like anywhere else, China has a diverse collection of individuals with diverse ideals, morals, and viewpoints. You can argue about the semantics of the word "racism", but prejudice aimed a culturally or nationally defined group is still prejudice. Saying that all Americans are stupid and all French are cowards is equally ignorant (when said seriously, not as a joke). These prejudices have a strong, biasing influence on the way we perceive members of these groups.

Saying that "the collective Chinese thought has become so skewed and fucked up to the point where now they are so hell-bent on world economic domination that it's scary" is similar to saying that after slavery the collective Black thought has become so skewed and fucked to the point now where all they can do is steal and live off the system - after all, that's just their culture, right? I get where you are coming from with the idea of a Chinese inferiority complex, but to demonize 1/6th of the world's population as though they are a collective hive-mind bent on domination is absurd. Most people just hope for a comfortable life. Many are activists trying to do good for society in the face of overwhelming greed and corruption.

Many businessmen and politicians are entirely deserving of your vitriol - the vast majority of Chinese, including many other businessmen and politicians, are not.

As far your reasons for not buying Chinese-made products - I don't disagree at all. It isn't a healthy environment, no, and there are plenty of valid reasons to be concerned about China's rise in power. Your last two paragraphs I completely agree with.

I'm sorry if I didn't put it clearly in my post, I tend to rush through too many thoughts in my head at once and can't get a clear point across...

I fully agree with you that it is the few rich leaders that are making the choices that define a lot of China's policies. I feel sorry for the common citizen of China because they're basically reduced to serfdom. Again, those people got the short end of the stick from the westerners, but at the same time, even though the Chinese govt is trying to protect their interest more so these days (higher fees for importing goods, buying up raw materials to control their manufacturing costs, etc) the big shots are really only looking out for themselves it seems and not the people who are actually on the ground floor manufacturing these goods with their hard work and time. And, unfortunately, this thought process is trickling down into the lower levels of society, I've seen it first hand. It's like these lower level citizens (sorry, I don't mean that in a derogatory way, just can't think of a better way to put it) see that the way to get ahead is to step on each others backs at any given opportunity. It's getting a little scary and very discouraging.

I don't mean to "demonize 1/6 of the worlds population" at all. But when you say that "most people hope for a comfortable life", are they really getting that? I'm sure it's slightly better than it was 5-10 years ago since people have wised up and realized that their work is more valuable than they were giving themselves credit for, but people are still exploited. And for that reason I have to say that China is fucked up.

I guess what I should say is that if a group of people from China were able to create their product without the corrupt government or industry big wigs pushing their crooked backroom deals and reacharound policies I would gladly buy a quality Chinese product where the profits go directly to those making the products. Unfortunately, this is never going to happen within China's govt and industrial structure as it is now. The only way to get ahead in China right now is **** everyone else over on your way to the top, and I see a lot of people who have no moral objections to this policy at all. It's the fault of the leaders for sure, but for all these years of oppression it's definitely spreading into other levels of society at a dangerous rate.