For The Tailors: Minimum # of Measurements Required to Get Good Fit?

Hello,

For the tailors here and anybody else who feels inclined to chime in, I have a question that I would be grateful for an answer to: What are the minimum number of measures required to get a decent fit for a dress shirt? And what measurements are they?

I understand the more measurements the better, but if you had to get to 90-95% perfection on the fit, then what are the minimum measurements you could do it in? And let's keep "visual measurements" out of this, so imagine you told somebody else to take the measurements so you actually never saw the client, all you have is a list of numbers, which numbers would you need?

Thank you for your valued input!

Not a tailor, but it seems to me you're barking up the wrong tree. The number of measurements doesn't correlate with better results. The fittings are what really matter. In fact, tailors who boast about the number of measurements they take should probably be avoided.

Agreed.
if it were only measurements that mattered you wouldn't see posts of how it took 2,3 5,10 tries to get a decent fit. Measurements don't convey the 3 dimensional aspect of the body nor can they communicate posture irregularities that effect the final outcome.

Thanks for the replies.

With enough measurements you actually can estimate the 3D body. What I do agree with however, is the posture changes and "real use" of the shirt being different than when you're actually getting measured and are standing stiff straight.

It seems movement is the big thing, however movements are predictable. For example, you're not going to bend backwards more than a certain amount, you can't bend your elbow backwards only forwards, etc. And those limitations are human and well-known. So as long as you have good measurements, why wouldn't a tailor be able to design something that fits well and allows for any movement also?

Originally Posted by nanotech

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Thanks for the replies.

With enough measurements you actually can estimate the 3D body. What I do agree with however, is the posture changes and "real use" of the shirt being different than when you're actually getting measured and are standing stiff straight.

It seems movement is the big thing, however movements are predictable. For example, you're not going to bend backwards more than a certain amount, you can't bend your elbow backwards only forwards, etc. And those limitations are human and well-known. So as long as you have good measurements, why wouldn't a tailor be able to design something that fits well and allows for any movement also?

Please explain how this is accomplished?

standing stiff straight when being measured is all wrong

Movement in a garment is so technical and personal to each individual it can not be simplified to a formula. Perfect measurements and a poor pattern or drafting system will negate each other. Not all patterns are created equal.

Originally Posted by nanotech

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies.

With enough measurements you actually can estimate the 3D body. What I do agree with however, is the posture changes and "real use" of the shirt being different than when you're actually getting measured and are standing stiff straight.

It seems movement is the big thing, however movements are predictable. For example, you're not going to bend backwards more than a certain amount, you can't bend your elbow backwards only forwards, etc. And those limitations are human and well-known. So as long as you have good measurements, why wouldn't a tailor be able to design something that fits well and allows for any movement also?

Because you're not doing a CAD drawing. Measurements and cloth and assemblage have margins of variability that make what you're talking about impossible. Typically, a good tailor will take a handful of measurements at your first meeting, throw together a basted try-on with plenty of allowances, and then fit it to you on your body.

Originally Posted by nanotech

Click to expand...

With enough measurements you actually can estimate the 3D body.

Something to remember when having your tailor craft your Avatar Halloween costume.

Originally Posted by Despos

Click to expand...

Please explain how this is accomplished?

standing stiff straight when being measured is all wrong

Movement in a garment is so technical and personal to each individual it can not be simplified to a formula. Perfect measurements and a poor pattern or drafting system will negate each other. Not all patterns are created equal.

Why couldn't you? Just measure around the body, starting from the neck and every inch down the body all the way to below waist and you'll have about 30-40 measurements which will tell you what outline the body has and what the shirt has to cover. The only problem is that's too many measurements...and that's just the neck, shoulder, & torso.

I'm no expert of course and I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

Originally Posted by nanotech

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Why couldn't you? Just measure around the body, starting from the neck and every inch down the body all the way to below waist and you'll have about 30-40 measurements which will tell you what outline the body has and what the shirt has to cover. The only problem is that's too many measurements...and that's just the neck, shoulder, & torso.

I'm no expert of course and I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

You will get an outline of a body or maybe a 3D model. But you seem to be forgetting, like previous posters have said, there is a lot of variability to a body: expansion and contraction of muscles, movements, twists, etc.

Sure, you can get an inanimate shape. But what truly makes us humans is the variability.

Originally Posted by nanotech

Click to expand...

Hello,

For the tailors here and anybody else who feels inclined to chime in, I have a question that I would be grateful for an answer to: What are the minimum number of measures required to get a decent fit for a dress shirt? And what measurements are they?

I understand the more measurements the better, but if you had to get to 90-95% perfection on the fit, then what are the minimum measurements you could do it in? And let's keep "visual measurements" out of this, so imagine you told somebody else to take the measurements so you actually never saw the client, all you have is a list of numbers, which numbers would you need?
Thank you for your valued input!

This sounds like MTM. Probably why MTM kind of sucks too.

Any tailor in the world will tell you that a 90% perfect fit is an incredible goal. I personally prefer to have as many measurements as possible. I know many who are able to skip some steps because they think it's unnecessary, and they're right, but they have decades of experience, I am still in training, I need to feel my way for many years to come.

look at profile of the body, draw a vertical line dividing the body in half. Circumference measurements do not tell you if the chest is fuller than the back or vice versa. No one is symmetrical. If you measure from the dividing line to the fullest depth of front and back, it will vary from person to person. Same thing from a front view. Divide down the center and most measure differently comparing right to left. Circumference measures do not convey depth. If you look at a body from the top you will find some are shaped like an 0 or rotate the 0, side to side or they can be shaped like this O. Only the eye determines this.

But that just suggest you need more measurements.

Now what I really think you're trying to get at is it's easier to start with a basic set of measurements and then adjust then to try and get a perfect numerical model of a human body.

Originally Posted by Despos

Click to expand...

look at profile of the body, draw a vertical line dividing the body in half. Circumference measurements do not tell you if the chest is fuller than the back or vice versa. No one is symmetrical. If you measure from the dividing line to the fullest depth of front and back, it will vary from person to person. Same thing from a front view. Divide down the center and most measure differently comparing right to left. Circumference measures do not convey depth. If you look at a body from the top you will find some are shaped like an 0 or rotate the 0, side to side or they can be shaped like this O. Only the eye determines this.
Wow, first of all let me say I very much appreciate and am grateful for all the valued input. Thank you! Despos that's exactly what I was thinking, but then i thought a shirt can't bend and form creases around your body anyway, it just covers it, so it would be alright that we don't get the depths and just get a circumference. However, I can see how you at least need to know how much of it is the back so that you can create a separate cloth for it and so that the "shirt" knows where the body starts turning from the back to the front portion of the shirt (which actually includes the sides too). Tailors don't actually account for the fact that the shirt has to go straight a bit on the sides when coming from the back before it has to "turn" to cover the front of the body, right? That "front" part of the shirt is really just the circumference of the body at that point minus the back, right? How do these online websites do it with just the measurements, sites like mytailor.com and pickashirt.com, etc.? It just seems like to me that there should be a way to get to, let's say 90%, of what a tailor could do if he had you right there to measure and try on different sizings multiple times compared to the same tailor just having measurements. So, for example, tailor spends months with you and gets an overall 80% "perfect fit", but with numbers only, and on the first try, should be able to get 72%. That really doesn't sound outrageous right? You may think that if you can get 72% on first try why do people still go at it for weeks and months, then that's probably because people who get custom shirts in the first place want extremely good fits, and 72% is probably not good enough and it's worth doing multiple extra tries to just get that extra 8%. (although in their minds they may not quantify it like that, that extra 8% may get them over the tipping point of going from "not satisfied" to "extremely satisfied" so it's well worth it to them). In the end, how can a tailor create a shirt that can allow lots of movements anyway? For example, if a shirt is created to allow a person to raise their hand and not feeling like the shirt is stretching or pulling out of their pants, then (since cotton is not stretchy), they'll have to actually add some extra material in that area near the underarm, but then when you're arm is down, there will be a lot of extra material there and it will not look fitted, right? How can a tailor take something that doesn't stretch and cover a body with it to allow movement AND to look "fitted" and to be able to "bulge" when a muscle bulges without it looking oversized when it's not bulging? They can't, right? (nothing against tailors I have high respect, just trying to understand this).

For my bespoke shirts, fittings on the sample shirt were crucial, followed by test runs and multiple launderings to allow shrinkage...and then further adjustments.

You must have patience to allow the fittings process take its due course...I did and am very happy with my shirts from SF's very own....Freddy Vandecasteele

If you want a perfect or 90-95% good fit from a MTM shirt company...based on numerous measurements, you might not get your money's worth