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Gaining strength vs losing fat

uNiCoRnPriNcEsSx

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i think its possible. i started the 5x5 3 days a week after new years, cardio on the inbetween days and am eating

breakfast: 2 eggs + blueberries + apple + banana

lunch: chicken salad (wiht chicken breast i baked myself) + avocado + sprouts

same chicken salad for dinner / fish + veggies for dinner

and i've noticed significant loss of fat in just almost three weeks. granted, i lost my ability to rep my bodyweight 5x a set, i'll be back on track in a month or so.

diet and spartican adherence to increasingly heavier workouts is key.
 

mm84321

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Originally Posted by AlexWb
Piggybacking on this topic, a friend told me that doing cardio after you life is good for the "losing fat" part, while the lifting is obviously getting you stronger. Is this effective if done 3x a week with a good diet?

If you are creating a considerable deficit through diet, the effect of burning a few more hundred calories through aerobic exercise is unlikely to have much of an impact. In fact, too much aerobic exercise can be a detriment to your fat loss goals. Lyle Mcdonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook goes more into detail about this. I can send it to anyone who is interested.
 

suited

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Originally Posted by uNiCoRnPriNcEsSx
i think its possible. i started the 5x5 3 days a week after new years, cardio on the inbetween days and am eating

breakfast: 2 eggs + blueberries + apple + banana

lunch: chicken salad (wiht chicken breast i baked myself) + avocado + sprouts

same chicken salad for dinner / fish + veggies for dinner

and i've noticed significant loss of fat in just almost three weeks. granted, i lost my ability to rep my bodyweight 5x a set, i'll be back on track in a month or so.

diet and spartican adherence to increasingly heavier workouts is key.


5 x 5 is a great program (it's what I'm currently using) and probably the best bet if you're going to attempt it. Again, I'm assuming the OP is not a newbie. Take your average lifter that's been in the gym for 5 years. Typically, as that person eats below maintenance and starts to lose weight, their strength gains are going to slow down, and in most cases, remain stagnant depending upon how long their cut is and how much weight they lose.

Telling someone that's been in the gym for several years, "Yes, you're going to continue to see significant strength gains while cutting" is not practical advice, IMO. Mentioning olympic athletes or career athletes isn't really applicable to the average person.
 

stylenooob

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Originally Posted by cross22
^ Dude what the hell are you talking about? This is what happens when you read magazines all day and have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Spend a few days around powerlifters and olympics weightlifters and you will learn that gaining strength has nothing to do with gaining mass.

Errr, what? I train with oly and power lifting competitors (recreational, not national-level guys). I just started an Oly program myself. I can absolutely, 100%, assure you that if a guy comes in at 6'2"and 180 lbs the first reaction your going to get from Oly and Power lifters is you need to gain some weight. 6'2" and 180 lbs is muscle profile of a distance runner, especially if 5-10 lbs of that is extra body fat.

Originally Posted by suited
5 x 5 is a great program (it's what I'm currently using) and probably the best bet if you're going to attempt it. Again, I'm assuming the OP is not a newbie. Take your average lifter that's been in the gym for 5 years. Typically, as that person eats below maintenance and starts to lose weight, their strength gains are going to slow down, and in most cases, remain stagnant depending upon how long their cut is and how much weight they lose.

Telling someone that's been in the gym for several years, "Yes, you're going to continue to see significant strength gains while cutting" is not practical advice, IMO. Mentioning olympic athletes or career athletes isn't really applicable to the average person.


Right. +1, as they say.

But the OP (is he even reading this thread still?) is likely a strength training beginner. If he's 6'2" and 180 lbs, and carrying a little extra fat, there is almost no room on that frame for much muscle. So probably any program/diet will cause him to get stronger for a while.
 

KayJay85

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Thanks to all for the replies (and healthy debate
tongue.gif
)

To give context, I have been in an out of the gym over the last 3yrs but never really stuck to a program. I try to get to the gym 2x week and do 20mins cardio then go around a couple of weight machines before hitting the showers. Never really got serious because I didnt use a program to keep track with (hopefully using SS will help me there). I have never been too conscious of my diet other than minimizing sodas.

TLDR: I am a beginner

I figured that if I do SS then I will put on mass while gaining strength. However, I want to deal with my tummy as well and wasnt sure if that can be done simultaneously.

Also, now I gotta search for a whole tonne more data on eating at a deficit

Thanks
 

asdf

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Originally Posted by suited
Strength gains, to any meaningful degree, typically come from gaining mass.

No. Much of "strength" is a neural thing. Besides, plenty of people get stronger in the training long run while staying the same weight.

He is basically asking "am I going to get a lot stronger while losing weight"?
No, that is exactly not what he said. If you could correctly "understand the context of the question," you would read that he asked if its possible to gain strength while losing FAT, not weight. This is very possible.

Gaining strength while losing weight is much harder depending on the circumstances, so is gaining mass while losing fat. You have failed to "understand the context of the question" and provided several posts worth of garbage poop mouth advice. Apparently you haven't "been in the game long enough."
 

suited

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Originally Posted by asdf
No. Much of "strength" is a neural thing. Besides, plenty of people get stronger in the training long run while staying the same weight. No, that is exactly not what he said. If you could correctly "understand the context of the question," you would read that he asked if its possible to gain strength while losing FAT, not weight. This is very possible. Gaining strength while losing weight is much harder depending on the circumstances, so is gaining mass while losing fat. You have failed to "understand the context of the question" and provided several posts worth of garbage poop mouth advice. Apparently you haven't "been in the game long enough."
Don't school me on the context of his question while at the same time taking my quote out of context. For the average joe hitting the gym a few times a week, strength gains are definitely correlated with gaining size. Recreational lifters (that aren't newbies) that are gaining strength while losing weight are a minority. Yes, it has been done. You might "know a guy" that did it, but that's irrelevant because it makes the most sense to give reasonable advice, not answering every question with a 'yes' simply because it's humanly possible.
 

asdf

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Originally Posted by suited
Don't school me on the context of his question while at the same time taking my quote out of context. For the average joe hitting the gym a few times a week, strength gains are definitely correlated with gaining size. Recreational lifters (that aren't newbies) that are gaining strength while losing weight are a minority. Yes, it has been done. You might "know a guy" that did it, but that's irrelevant because it makes the most sense to give reasonable advice, not answering every question with a 'yes' simply because it's humanly possible.

Yet again, you miss the point.

"losing weight" and "losing fat" are not the same thing. The OP asked about losing fat, to which you answered some garbage broscience about losing weight, and have continued. I repeat: you have not understood the question correctly.

Furthermore, it is entirely possible to gain strength while staying the same WEIGHT. This would imply, as you have somewhat correctly hinted, that the subject is gaining muscle mass and losing FAT(although much of the gains, depending on training age, would be neural/technique based). This is exactly what everyone else in this thread has been talking about, a "re-comp." Meanwhile you have blathered on about irrelevant bullshit while touting how correctly you have understood the question.
 

indesertum

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its wrong to say mass gains have nothing to do with strength gains, but neural adaptations of musculature is a bigger factor in strength gains than muscle size

http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/r.../01/neural.cfm

you also have to realize there's two different kinds of hypertrophy. one kind increases the size of the sarcolema (done by submaximal load lifting by bodybuilders, has little correlation with strength). one kind increases the size of the myofibrils (done by near maximal effort, has good correlation with strength)

here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy

this is a good read


i think you should just take a step back and just think about what people are saying. people that are telling you what you said is wrong are saying it for a reason
 

jarude

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meh, people just want to be "right" and get mad when their own personal experiences and dimwitted interpretations don't match up to, in this case, commonly accepted knowledge amongst those most qualified. not that im most qualified - far from it -, but the strength coaches/lifters etc who have proven this repeatedly.

when you look at the advice and arguments given, its pretty easy to see this guy is a dunce. move on, let brosef be "right," while the rest of the informed world recomps successfully.
 

James_M

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What's the general window for beginner's gains, and what's the best way to maximize that opportunity?

I'm 5'11 155 pounds. I've been on a routine for the last 5 weeks that alternates cardio one day and lifting the next. It consists of compound excercises (pull-ups, dips, bench, inclice dumbbell press, squats and or leg press depending on timing and availability of the rack, etc...) I've noticed strength gains and some improvement in chest and triceps plus a little fat loss. I'd say I have about 4-5 pounds of fat that I could still stand to lose concentrated at my waist and a bit in my chest.

Since this is the opportunity to both gain lean mass and lose weight at the same time I'm looking to make the most of it. My diet is good, got my macros down and getting about a gram of protein per pound each day. About 70 percent of it is from whole foods. I've been eating generally at or slightly below maintenance?

Any advice on the best way to make use of the beginner gains window?
 

jarude

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you're thinking too much. "beginner gains" is the strength you get from your CNS learning how to adapt more and more muscle fibre as you learn how to lift. as long as your diet and training are in order, beginners gains are pretty much until you run into the progress wall. ie. once your bench/squat/deadlift stop going up every workout.
 

Mr. Lee

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No. There are only two options:

1. Lift heavy, eat a lot, take supplements and rest as necessary. And even if you think you know how to lift, you would do well to get a trainer.
2. Having hopefully put on a little bit of muscle (but also some fat) you'll then need to adjust your diet, do some cardio, and try to burn off the extra blubber.

There are only "building phases" and "shredding phases." This is why a 5'9" bodybuilder is 295 "off season" and 245 for competition.
 

indesertum

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^i'm sorry but you should stop giving bad advice to noobs.

there's a third option and that's lift heavy at daily caloric deficit but making sure you ingest enough white carbs and protein post workout. you won't make significant weight gain, but your strength will go up and bodyfat will decrease

bodybuilders aren't normal joes and their workouts and methods of getting fit aren't fit for people who don't care about entering competitions
 

James_M

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lee
No. There are only two options:

1. Lift heavy, eat a lot, take supplements and rest as necessary. And even if you think you know how to lift, you would do well to get a trainer.
2. Having hopefully put on a little bit of muscle (but also some fat) you'll then need to adjust your diet, do some cardio, and try to burn off the extra blubber.

There are only "building phases" and "shredding phases." This is why a 5'9" bodybuilder is 295 "off season" and 245 for competition.


Yeah, sorry but this is really dumb. I'm new but I'm not marsupialed.
 

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