Alfred Sargent Handgrade - Pictures

Originally Posted by cameroon

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So are you and you have been here for much longer than me, so go figure

Sorry to disrupt any little boys club on here- but I assume this forum is for grown ups who can take it and dish it out when necessary.

I ask you a direct question: Would you advise a friend to buy those Paul Stuart shoes at that price?

I would greatly appreciate the honesty of a straight answer

If talk of money is frown upon in this sub-forum, then can the members who are selling please keep their offers/links in the BS subforum?

As long as that is not the case I believe they are rightfully subject to comment by other members in the MC sub forum

Who's puppet are you again?

Originally Posted by cameroon

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So Sorry to disrupt any little boys club on here- but I assume this forum is for grown ups who can take it and dish it out when necessary.

It is. But I and many others prefer to chat with people who are civil and friendly to each other from beginning to end.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. Please...

...don't feed the troll.

uhhh... WTF happened to this thread??!!

To try and get back on track... am trying to squeeze in a visit with Chay for the week after next. I'm excited to view the AS lineup in person, and am also tempted to have my own last done up at Springline. Perhaps wholecut for the first commission.

Originally Posted by cameroon

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let me start by stating a few important facts:

-First: "I Am Not, Nor Have I Ever Been, a Member" of the AS handgrade owners club. This is because as a good SFer i never buy things at retail price and have no access to such shoes at a discount. That however has no relevance on anything I have said in past posts, or will say in this post

-I have no personal interests on the success or otherwise of AS. I discuss it because AS has been on the forum headlines recently

- I have never met "Mr Chay" or would have i invoked His name in vain. I would have never been aware of said gentleman had he not been so widely referred to in this forum. Excessively so I would say- for his own benefit. So the reason i refer to "chay" is not derogatory towards this person but towards his forum persona as invoked by so many of you- with all the necessary disclaimers it seems like this person you call Chay is like jesus, in that he came and washed your feet leading many here to become followers of a new religion -chayism or ASsism (not to be confused with an older, more widespread cult)

-I believe (perhaps mistakenly) that there are no sacred cows in this forum

With that said I have a very low tolerance for organised religion/cults whether they be promoted by true believers or by a paid up clergy

If AS is in financial trouble (I say again, if) then this should not be hidden but discussed in the open as it is relevant. Sure unfounded gossip can sink good companies and so I am all for not disseminating it, but it seems that the facts have occurred before the rumours leaked out so this cannot be invoked

I don't usually get drawn into this ridiculous "pissing" contests. However, you seem to believe that you have some "right" to express your opinions and for those opinions to be of a satisfactory quality as to be credible and to add value to a conversation/discussion.

I don't believe that I need to remind you that we are on a clothing forum where there are MANY people who are passionate about what they wear, both on their bodies and their feet.

There are various thread where people share their experiences about items that they buy. Most of these experiences are personal. However, they do give others, who do not have the opportunity to experience the product, some idea of the perceived quality.

I started this thread because I wanted to comment upon the experience that I had with a brand that I'd had little previous experience with and didn't know of the quality that they could produce.

Others did the same and that's why this thread has been updated over the last year or so.

There have been links to articles outlining what has recently happened to AS in this thread. I do not know how you can summise that this information is hidden?

What you appear to be suggesting is that a group of people who have a share a very keen interest in these things, belong to some sort of cult. Well, if you consider that people are basically tribes with collective and shared interest, you may see how your argument is nonsense.

In fact most of what you've written on this thread is baseless nonsense. However, I am trying to appeal to the adult in you. Not everything you think needs to be written down. You are no less entitled to your opinions than anyone here. However, I frequent this forum to learn, not to have to wade through drivel.

You have absolutely nothing to offer this thread, but opinion and your opinion cannot even stand gentle prodding by others.

For your refernece, I have shoes from:

AS
CJ
EG
GG
Church
Barkers
Barker Black
Cheaney
Vass
Grenson
Santoni

So, whilst this may not make me an expert, I have some basis for comparison when I express my opinion.

Clint

Originally Posted by medtech_expat

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uhhh... WTF happened to this thread??!!

To try and get back on track... am trying to squeeze in a visit with Chay for the week after next. I'm excited to view the AS lineup in person, and am also tempted to have my own last done up at Springline. Perhaps wholecut for the first commission.

Nice! You traveling to London? Very jealous. Just keep in mind that a bespoke last would be great, but it's tough to do without fittings. If you'll be back in London at some point in the forseeable future it should be fine, but just keep that in mind. I'd recommend trying on all the AS lasts first which I'm sure Chay can arrange in your size and seeing if one of those is already ideal.

Also, if you'll be in London you MUST stop by W. Bill to check out the tweeds.

Originally Posted by Redwoood

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Gentlemen, Gentlemen. Please...

...don't feed the troll.

Originally Posted by medtech_expat

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uhhh... WTF happened to this thread??!!

To try and get back on track... am trying to squeeze in a visit with Chay for the week after next. I'm excited to view the AS lineup in person, and am also tempted to have my own last done up at Springline. Perhaps wholecut for the first commission.

Sorry Gentleman. I sometimes get carried away when people insult people who I consider friends. I consider Chay to be a friend (we communicate often).

If someone wants to say they've had a bad experience with their footwear, that's one thing. But to start commenting on people, just because one doesn't like the number times they've been mentioned gets my goat.

I'll go back to lurking now.

Nothing to see here!!

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

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Nice! You traveling to London? Very jealous. Just keep in mind that a bespoke last would be great, but it's tough to do without fittings. If you'll be back in London at some point in the forseeable future it should be fine, but just keep that in mind. I'd recommend trying on all the AS lasts first which I'm sure Chay can arrange in your size and seeing if one of those is already ideal.

Also, if you'll be in London you MUST stop by W. Bill to check out the tweeds.

I'm only in London for a day, and other than picking up some recent damage at EG I didn't have any fixed agenda in mind. So a first-ever excursion to Northampton seemed appropriate. Thanks for the note on bespoke lasts; this is intended as Plan B if the existing last range doesn't work out.

Noted about W. Bill! Especially timely after gdl's new Chan posted yesterday, such a lovely fabric. Any other fabric merchants in the West End you can recommend?

Originally Posted by cameroon

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“Troll”

Love that word

Calling someone a troll here is often the best compliment as it really demeans the people that use it by revealing their insecurity and fear of people that do not share their parochial little world- oh my god I am being taken from my comfort zone- it is a troll help. Don’t worry ladies you can come down from your chairs

“Puppet”

Now, that is more interesting as it seems to imply I am speaking on behalf of some higher dark powerful forces moving against ASsism . More glamorous than Troll, but if anything even more indicative of insecurity regarding those using it.

“My thread”

Clintonf I assume the internet was not around when you grew up. Either that or you have had a sheltered adolescence. There is no such thing as “my thread” on a public forum. There is the “thread I started”. That gives nor you nor anyone else participating any rights of control on what other forum members wish to contribute-specially when they are on the same topic- just not in the vein you would like to hear


If you and some other fellows share a keen interest on AS shoes and do not wish to be disturbed by any voice that may distress you then clearly a public forum is not where you should be. I can suggest a myriad other ways in which you can achieve this without risk of trolls or puppets while using the internet

Clintonf, from the fact that you posted a list of brands in a “pissing-contest” form I deduce your are not a long time shoe aficionado. This is because

1-\tI like to think (SF sadly does not bear this out) that people that really like/know shoes are civilised enough to see how childish that is

2-\tThe list of brands you published is piss poor both in what it misses and some of what it includes

Getting back on track, reading the threads about AS here has given me the clear impression that there is a group of people that are trying to push AS at all costs. If for profit or out of some kind of misplaced loyalty I don’t know, but I does a great disservice to any brand.

If I was reading these threads from afar I would have by now concluded that AS tried to come in hard on the high end from nowhere (rumours of rights infringements regarding G&G as a result of previous outsourcing can be read in between the lines implicitly and explicitly) – selling shoes that were fully pimped up (as per G&G after all) for a non-discerning American based clientele, which love the attention bestowed on their hallowed feet by none other than the “creator”. Some no doubt have financial interests riding on this promotion others are just gullible fellow travellers

You can now continue talking to yourselves in whatever resounding chamber you wish



You really are a douche bag. No other way to put it--apologies to everyone else. This is specifically a thread geared and designed for pictures of Alfred Sargent shoes. If you don't like their shoes--oh, I forgot you can't afford them.

Well, we like them and we own them, and your input has had zero value. I believe G+G shoes are overrated and overloved here, but I don't go into the G+G thread and piss on their shoes. People like them and they have a right to their opinions. Your just an ass who decided to get your post count up by pissing on Alfred Sargent. Have some respect, not just for us, but for yourself, and move on. Once you stop looking at Appreciation, and move out of your parents basement, you can get a real job and just maybe then I will sell you a second hand pair.

Originally Posted by medtech_expat

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I'm only in London for a day, and other than picking up some recent damage at EG I didn't have any fixed agenda in mind. So a first-ever excursion to Northampton seemed appropriate. Thanks for the note on bespoke lasts; this is intended as Plan B if the existing last range doesn't work out.

Noted about W. Bill! Especially timely after gdl's new Chan posted yesterday, such a lovely fabric. Any other fabric merchants in the West End you can recommend?

Honestly, W. Bill is the number one visit you should do in London. I can't recommend anything else higher in the city's Sartorial world. It's like stepping back in time and Ray Hammett is a true gentleman. I wrote about that and other things here in case it helps for your trip: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=166378

Keep in mind that Northampton isn't an in and out trip. When I went to both AS and Springline it was a full day. Just be sure to plan things out accordingly and then leave extra time on top of that! :^)

Originally Posted by cameroon

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"Troll"

Love that word

Calling someone a troll here is often the best compliment as it really demeans the people that use it by revealing their insecurity and fear of people that do not share their parochial little world- oh my god I am being taken from my comfort zone- it is a troll help. Don't worry ladies you can come down from your chairs

"Puppet"

Now, that is more interesting as it seems to imply I am speaking on behalf of some higher dark powerful forces moving against ASsism . More glamorous than Troll, but if anything even more indicative of insecurity regarding those using it.

"My thread"

Clintonf I assume the internet was not around when you grew up. Either that or you have had a sheltered adolescence. There is no such thing as "my thread" on a public forum. There is the "thread I started". That gives nor you nor anyone else participating any rights of control on what other forum members wish to contribute-specially when they are on the same topic- just not in the vein you would like to hear


If you and some other fellows share a keen interest on AS shoes and do not wish to be disturbed by any voice that may distress you then clearly a public forum is not where you should be. I can suggest a myriad other ways in which you can achieve this without risk of trolls or puppets while using the internet

Clintonf, from the fact that you posted a list of brands in a "pissing-contest" form I deduce your are not a long time shoe aficionado. This is because

1-\tI like to think (SF sadly does not bear this out) that people that really like/know shoes are civilised enough to see how childish that is

2-\tThe list of brands you published is piss poor both in what it misses and some of what it includes

Getting back on track, reading the threads about AS here has given me the clear impression that there is a group of people that are trying to push AS at all costs. If for profit or out of some kind of misplaced loyalty I don't know, but I does a great disservice to any brand.

If I was reading these threads from afar I would have by now concluded that AS tried to come in hard on the high end from nowhere (rumours of rights infringements regarding G&G as a result of previous outsourcing can be read in between the lines implicitly and explicitly) - selling shoes that were fully pimped up (as per G&G after all) for a non-discerning American based clientele, which love the attention bestowed on their hallowed feet by none other than the "creator". Some no doubt have financial interests riding on this promotion others are just gullible fellow travellers

You can now continue talking to yourselves in whatever resounding chamber you wish

Originally Posted by cameroon

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Note: for those that think I am talking bullocks if anything it is ignorance of what is going on-

You may be talking "bullocks" but more probably "bollocks"!

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

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Keep in mind that Northampton isn't an in and out trip. When I went to both AS and Springline it was a full day. Just be sure to plan things out accordingly and then leave extra time on top of that! :^)

Thanks for the tip, David - much appreciated. I WAS actually thinking I could get there and back in half a day!

Originally Posted by medtech_expat

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Thanks for the tip, David - much appreciated. I WAS actually thinking I could get there and back in half a day!

Anything's possible! Doing both AS and Springline together is likely a full day trip. If you just do AS it should be doable in a morning or afternoon. While you probably already have dinner plans, do try and eat at St. John's in Smithfield in London if you're not afraid of obscure cuts of meats mixed with fresh ingredients.

Originally Posted by cameroon

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"Troll"

Love that word

Calling someone a troll here is often the best compliment as it really demeans the people that use it by revealing their insecurity and fear of people that do not share their parochial little world- oh my god I am being taken from my comfort zone- it is a troll help. Don't worry ladies you can come down from your chairs

"Puppet"

Now, that is more interesting as it seems to imply I am speaking on behalf of some higher dark powerful forces moving against ASsism . More glamorous than Troll, but if anything even more indicative of insecurity regarding those using it.

"My thread"

Clintonf I assume the internet was not around when you grew up. Either that or you have had a sheltered adolescence. There is no such thing as "my thread" on a public forum. There is the "thread I started". That gives nor you nor anyone else participating any rights of control on what other forum members wish to contribute-specially when they are on the same topic- just not in the vein you would like to hear


If you and some other fellows share a keen interest on AS shoes and do not wish to be disturbed by any voice that may distress you then clearly a public forum is not where you should be. I can suggest a myriad other ways in which you can achieve this without risk of trolls or puppets while using the internet

Clintonf, from the fact that you posted a list of brands in a "pissing-contest" form I deduce your are not a long time shoe aficionado. This is because

1-\tI like to think (SF sadly does not bear this out) that people that really like/know shoes are civilised enough to see how childish that is

2-\tThe list of brands you published is piss poor both in what it misses and some of what it includes

Getting back on track, reading the threads about AS here has given me the clear impression that there is a group of people that are trying to push AS at all costs. If for profit or out of some kind of misplaced loyalty I don't know, but I does a great disservice to any brand.

If I was reading these threads from afar I would have by now concluded that AS tried to come in hard on the high end from nowhere (rumours of rights infringements regarding G&G as a result of previous outsourcing can be read in between the lines implicitly and explicitly) - selling shoes that were fully pimped up (as per G&G after all) for a non-discerning American based clientele, which love the attention bestowed on their hallowed feet by none other than the "creator". Some no doubt have financial interests riding on this promotion others are just gullible fellow travellers

You can now continue talking to yourselves in whatever resounding chamber you wish

I was going to stay out of this b/c frankly it usually isn't worth the time to respond to such nonsense. But since you clearly don't do any homework or appear to have any capacity for critical thought, a couple of thoughts for you:

1. People praise Chay and are pleased with the quality of AS handgrade, b/c both are deserving of praise - I too have ordered AS handgrade from Chay and found him to be truly exemplary and the shoes to be an outstanding relative value (and I have years and years of experience with high end shoes). The shoes themselves are excellent absolute quality (although other makers offer comparable quality, albeit at higher prices, including G&G), but chay is truly (and I'd even add uniquely) outstanding - he is honest, he never demeans his competitors, he is incredibly responsive, he is on top of the entire operation, he is personable yet humble, in sum, he offers service one does not find these days, even (or maybe particularly) from high-end producers / marketers (again, including G&G). Isn't that what we all are looking for? Chay offers it, people rightly single him out for it, yet you, without any knowledge of him or his service (his first name is Chay, fyi) call anyone who praises him a shill. Seems more your issue than anyone else's. In addition, perhaps you should actually handle a pair of these shoes before you spout more nonsense about the actual product. Many of us have the context in which to place these, having handled or owned shoes from many other makers. What's your experience with these?

2. If you'd actually do an iota of homework, you'd discover that virtually all of these posters were active (and I might say positive) contributors well before AS Handgrade was conceived - even in your feverished hallucinatory mind, it's a bit of a stretch to conclude that all these people developed helpful forum personae simply to become shills for a single product years later. None touted AS prior to development of the handgrade line, all have direct experience with it. Says to me that AS is doing something right. But, if your little mind has a problem wrapping itself around that flaw in your logic, it says more about your intellectual limitations than anything else.

3. From a cursory review of your posts (and how could it be anything other than cursory since you've only offered a relative handful of mostly worthless, sometimes incendiary posts), it is clear that 1) you're just looking for a fight, and 2) you have a shocking lack of knowledge of most of the things you comment on, whether that is shoes or bankruptcy law. Offer something useful, substantiate an opinion (since you have so so many), make something other than unsubstantiated comments and perhaps someone might engage you in the honest debate you claim to want.

4. What's with the random anti-American comments with which you pepper your posts ("non-discerning", "obese")? Some of the active members of this forum are Americans, but many, including a number of your targets in this thread are not (some may even, shockingly, be British as well...do your homework...). You may be surprised to learn that many of the those "non-discerning Americans" may be your own, presumably discerning, countrymen (or is the "discerning" label only reserved for those who prostrate themselves to the church of Church's?). I have no desire to debate your ethnocentric prejudices, but if you find this forum too Yankee-centric, I have a thought - stop posting here. I don't sense you'll be much missed...

5. Per a prior post of yours - fyi, in my dealings with Chay, he refused payment (I offered partial payment) until the shoes were ready to be shipped. Hard to make a case that there's much risk in that is there? Looks like you still own that bridge after all...

In summary, offer something useful (even marginally so), stop picking fights with people who have proven themselves to be valuable contributors over the course of years, stop being a troll or GTFO! When everyone around you seems to you to be crazy, perhaps it's time to look in the mirror...

Originally Posted by cameroon

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don’t feed the troll/puppet
dummy!!!

Unfortunately there are no basements in UK homes so i stay in the attic

By the way instead of the 2nd hand pair of ASs can you tell your friend to "sell" me those great paul stuarts at a discount-

Also when any of you guys are passing by London let me know i would love to meet and exchange experiences. I can drive you to Northampton- free of charge- we can all go out and meet teh chay-



PS- plus a semi-automatic- you know "us people" here in the uk are opressed by socialists in the european union who deny us this god given right


I really don't believe you drive. I can't believe you are old enough.