Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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ah sorry for the mixup! But yea, I didnt even know they made videos in 1969 so I was surprised to see that too. Personally, tho I love skinhead reggae, I've always preferred soul, as long as it's mid 60s and not later 60s when it started to evolve into funk. (horn section>string section)

that is except when Jim Cox is spinning his "Reggae Train" which makes me want to dance to every track!! I hear he is having a big 60th birthday bash in Feb (?) in east london iirc.

I'm with you on the horns remark, but you can't dismiss the earlier funk records that kept the horn section. What about the Isley Brothers?

For the most part though, string sections/Philly Soul can suck it.

Originally Posted by KD-fens

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I'm with you on the horns remark, but you can't dismiss the earlier funk records that kept the horn section. What about the Isley Brothers?

For the most part though, string sections/Philly Soul can suck it.

i love the isley brothers top notch. summer breeze and who's that lady 2 of my favorite tunes, the guitar and the intro's the mutts nuts.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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This thread has really gone from Strength to Strength! some good music talked about in the past few pages. MoM, "Nothing but a heartache" is also one of, if not #1, fave soul track of mine too! Tokyo was great, there is a big Oi scene which has kind of degraded over the years IMO, to the point it's like American thug-core now and has gotten pretty removed from any kind of identifiable "skinhead". We did catch a great ska band, very 2 Tone sounding, like a cross between Specials and Madness called The Autocratics. We saw them last time in town and were stoked they were playing this time as well. There were a few skinheads at the show supporting them which was nice to see. Here are a couple snapshots of me at their show and with the band with singer

Nice sweater vest GetSmart! I've always been a fan of that style sweater (don't know a proper name for the pattern), way before I even knew what a skinhead was. Thanks for the sharing the cool photos, glad you had a good time!

Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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I've gotta say I agree with MoM. My folks and their mates were not invovled in PB-ing in the area of West London where they lived. In fact later in the 70's I went with them to Rock against Racism festivals etc. Now I'm not saying they were angels! They were invovled in rucks and went to the seaside on bank holidays and were in trouble with the law etc. I'd like to think this was fair fights against other gangs. However violence and fighting is and always has been a fact of life if you grow up working class.

Also, and I don't want to get too socio-polictal lecturing - the main incidents of PB-ing as I understand it were in the East End or at least started there. This is after Powell's rivers of blood speech and tensions were running high. There has always been incidents of prejedice in the East End - Mosleys blackshirts, Battle of Cable St etc.

Now if Teddy Boys were the main fashion cult in the late 60's this would be associated with them. It's just that at that particular time Skinhead was the look of the majority of working class youth

As far as I am aware that documentary was filmed in East London and it was trying to be sensationlist as the media usually is. 4 or 5 kids were interivewed and were meant to speak for the attitudes of thousands of kids around the country.

Now I'm not going to look at this through rose-tinted glasses and say it didn't go on or wasn't an issue. It might be significant that when skins started receiving press the originals started growing their hair a bit longer and the styles were changing - I've heard this was to avoid trouble from the law and to be able to get a job etc.

It's a shame that this is what tends to be remembered most by a lot of people wheras it was not reflective of all skins who IMO were mainly apolitical (though not adverse to a bit of bovver!)

Lecture over!
I was around East London,at the time,but did not see too much evidence of it.You will find that where there was a large Population of Asians there was trouble.West London(especially around the Hounslow/Acton Area)also had their fair share.What is not so well Documented was the fact West Indian Youths were also involved in this.I was working in Southall in the late 60s,and tensions were running high between the Asian and Black Youths-there was no White Skinhead in sight. I think Southlondongent there is a bit of South V North London in what you say.Everything that is bad must come out of the East End.Yes Mosley did march through the East End,but who also fought against him-East Enders.Mosleys`support did not just come from the East End but from all over London and further!
Me and my Mates did not take any notice of the Powell Speech in `68.We were going to Jamaican Clubs at that time.Politicians were all the same to us.

Originally Posted by C3PLOS

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Another question for M-O-M (or anyone else from that time period):

Did you know any one who remained a Mod througout the late '60s/early '70s, or did everyone pretty much morph into the skinhead/suedehead look or drop it altogether?

Just curious if there were people still sporting a Mod look after others moved on. I'm guessing not, since the Mod thing was constantly evolving and changing back then.

-C

Just before I answer the question above, I'll put in my two-pennyworth about Enoch Powell's influence. I remember giving my girlfriend a telling-off for saying "He isn't such a bad old stick". I agree that he may have personally been against violence and may have had no personal animosity to anyone on the basis of colour, but he rode a wave of popularity among people who were inclined to both. Inevitably within skinheads in '69 there would have been people in that "wave", given who and where many of them were. I didn't fall into that trap, nor did many of my mates. Some did, though.

But this leads on, in a way, to the question above. The original skinheads were not a political movement. It was a matter of fashion. Fashion is hardly ever that static, because as well as the togetherness of a fashion group there is always an element of competition, which is how fashions develop and change. I think it is fairly well documented that direct retentions from the 1960s mod look persisted in Northern Soul clubs for a while, but eventually even that gave way to the loose, baggy trousers and badge-covered vest look.

Here's a funny thing, though. I have just remembered an incident. Remember that several posts ago I talked of a friend next door (when I was still living in the Blackpool area), a couple of years older than myself, and how his mates were all early 60s mods? Well, in late '70/early 71 I bumped into one of them at a party in Kent - God knows what he was doing there, it was an amazing coincidence! The thing was, he hadn't changed a bit. His overall look was still frozen in early-to-mid 1960s. In fact he had a kind of Brian Jones look...

... right down to the knitted tie! I asked him what kind of music he was into these days, and he said "Early 60s beat groups". He hadn't changed one bit, it appeared! I don't know whether he had, during the six or seven years since I had last seen him, simply reverted to a look he had liked, or had never changed at all. Whichever was the case, this was a unique phenomenon.

Oy gewalt!

A film about "hammer-wielding thugs in crombies and harrington jackets" (that's according to the article, not the picture) set in 1970s Glasgow! That's all we bloody need!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/...nd-of-comments

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Originally Posted by browniecj

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I was around East London,at the time,but did not see too much evidence of it.You will find that where there was a large Population of Asians there was trouble.West London(especially around the Hounslow/Acton Area)also had their fair share.What is not so well Documented was the fact West Indian Youths were also involved in this.I was working in Southall in the late 60s,and tensions were running high between the Asian and Black Youths-there was no White Skinhead in sight. I think Southlondongent there is a bit of South V North London in what you say.Everything that is bad must come out of the East End.Yes Mosley did march through the East End,but who also fought against him-East Enders.Mosleys`support did not just come from the East End but from all over London and further!
Me and my Mates did not take any notice of the Powell Speech in `68.We were going to Jamaican Clubs at that time.Politicians were all the same to us.

A Footnote to what I have written before.The East End,during the 60s,was still predominately Jewish.The Bangladeshi Influx did not really start until the 70s-first the Market then Shops and Restaurants.
I grew my Hair for two reasons:-
1/ Too much Old Bill Attention.
2/ The younger Skins coming along seemed to believe a pair of Jeans (with Braces),Boots and a shirt was all you needed to be a Skinhead.As has been Posted before,Skinhead was a Fashion and we took a lot of money and care to look right.We were Peacocks.Call it Elitism.That was how it was.

Originally Posted by browniecj

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The younger Skins coming along seemed to believe a pair of Jeans (with Braces),Boots and a shirt was all you needed to be a Skinhead.As has been Posted before,Skinhead was a Fashion and we took a lot of money and care to look right.We were Peacocks.Call it Elitism.That was how it was.

Motion seconded.

Originally Posted by browniecj

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I was around East London,at the time,but did not see too much evidence of it.You will find that where there was a large Population of Asians there was trouble.West London(especially around the Hounslow/Acton Area)also had their fair share.What is not so well Documented was the fact West Indian Youths were also involved in this.I was working in Southall in the late 60s,and tensions were running high between the Asian and Black Youths-there was no White Skinhead in sight. I think Southlondongent there is a bit of South V North London in what you say.Everything that is bad must come out of the East End.Yes Mosley did march through the East End,but who also fought against him-East Enders.Mosleys`support did not just come from the East End but from all over London and further!
Me and my Mates did not take any notice of the Powell Speech in `68.We were going to Jamaican Clubs at that time.Politicians were all the same to us.

Cheers Browniecj, I totally agree with what you say. I posted a follow-up to clarify that I didn't want to come across as blaming the East Londonders - it's just that the East End has traditionally been used as a battle ground for both the Right and the Left over immigration. Really the point I was trying to make was that anti-immigrant violence probably would have happened at that point in time anyway regardless of what youth cult was in then.

TBH I'd much rather chat about clothes, music than this stuff!

Re the North V. South London thing - S. London gets more than it's fair share of unfair stick IMHO! I was born, and my family are from, West London and I only moved south of the River later. I've lived in North London for a time as well and have lots of mates in the East so really I just see myself as a Londoner (notwithstanding my user name)!

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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Oy gewalt!

A film about "hammer-wielding thugs in crombies and harrington jackets" (that's according to the article, not the picture) set in 1970s Glasgow! That's all we bloody need!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/...nd-of-comments

.

Echoes of 'Small Faces' and '16 Years of Alchohol' (?) ...

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Originally Posted by Southlondongent

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Cheers Browniecj, I totally agree with what you say.

I posted a follow-up to clarify that I didn't want to come across as blaming the East Londonders - it's just that the East End has traditionally been used as a battle ground for both the Right and the Left over immigration. Really the point I was trying to make was that anti-immigrant violence probably would have happened at that point in time anyway regardless of what youth cult was in then.

TBH I'd much rather chat about clothes, music than this stuff!

Re the North V. South London thing - S. London gets more than it's fair share of unfair stick IMHO! I was born, and my family are from, West London and I only moved south of the River later. I've lived in North London for a time as well and have lots of mates in the East so really I just see myself as a Londoner (notwithstanding my user name)!

That is how it should be Mate,Londoners.Part of(or have been part of)a very exciting City.Clothes,Records are all part of our Culture!

By the way, the term "Ned" is not short for "Non-Educated Delinquents", it's a vocal contraction of the phrase "Ne'er-do-well".

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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ah sorry for the mixup! But yea, I didnt even know they made videos in 1969 so I was surprised to see that too. Personally, tho I love skinhead reggae, I've always preferred soul, as long as it's mid 60s and not later 60s when it started to evolve into funk. (horn section>string section)

that is except when Jim Cox is spinning his "Reggae Train" which makes me want to dance to every track!! I hear he is having a big 60th birthday bash in Feb (?) in east london iirc.
Going to this-Jan.22nd.Going to be a good night out.