• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Restaurants with Dress Codes: Take Back The Night!

johnvw

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
875
Reaction score
58
Originally Posted by mafoofan
You guys honestly care how other people dress?

Would we be on SF if we didn't?
sly.gif
 

xpress

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
508
Reaction score
11
Originally Posted by Bounder
Admittedly, a lot of people have this attitude. They are entitled to it but I think it's a shame as they are missing out. Some of us, at least occasionally, go to restaurants with much higher expectations. We are seeking an experience, not satiation. I am going to repost one of the most compelling defenses of dress codes that I have ever read.

-
-

The people who object to dress codes are missing the point. Why should everything be reduced to the lowest common denominator? There is plenty of space for people who want to dress casually when they dine. I do it myself. But there should also be a space for people who want to dine with a certain elan. There is a certain pleasure in attending black tie events if you enjoy that sort of thing. There is a sense of camaraderie "” an unspoken understanding that, for tonight, we are a community with certain shared values. It would be inappropriate to attend wearing shorts, not only because it would be rude to the host but because it creates a jarring note in what should be a harmonious evening. By wearing shorts you are declaring that there is no community, no shared values. Perhaps this camaraderie is just an illusion, but it's a pleasant one and you're ruining it for everyone else.

The same idea, albeit somewhat weakened, applies in restaurants with dress codes. By ignoring the dress code, you're attacking the values of those who do follow it. "I spit on your bourgeois manners and outmoded sensibilities! I do what I want!"

This may not be the message those who ignore dress codes intend to send but it's the message those who follow them get. I don't think this is something that people who ignore dress codes really understand but it explains a lot of the vehemence on the part of those who sometimes like to dress for dinner.

-
-

I will add a couple of reasons of my own. First, when you are choosing a restaurant, do you consider the decor? Are you really indifferent to eating in a 16th century French chateau v. a McDonald's? For many of us, the ambiance can be an important part of the experience and your fellow diners are, for better or worse, a part of it. If you can ignore the guy sitting at the next table wearing a baseball cap with an outline of a naked lady on it and a "Kiss ******!" T-shirt while concentrating on the artwork on the walls, good for you. But some of us lack these powers of concentration.

Second, I assume that everyone here has an interest in tailored clothing. Is it so wrong to want an excuse to wear it once in a while? You would -- or at least I would -- feel pretty stupid dressing up in a DJ and then going to eat at McDonalds. I'd feel almost equally ridiculous in an allegedly nice restaurant where the better dressed people are wearing trainers. But that is what everything is becoming, the lowest common denominator. It's a sartorial version of Gresham's law: Bad clothing drives out good. We should promote every opportunity to encourage people to at least put on a jacket.

I would hope that even the people here who have no interest in dress codes can appreciate why some people do. Every place doesn't have to be a sports bar. There are plenty of places to be casual. Is it so bad to encourage the few remaining places that try to promote a sense of occasion?

BTW, someone suggested to me that I create a list in the OP of these restaurants. I think that's a great idea. I have to run to the airport now but I will get that done ASAP.


+2

I live in Eastern Canada, which is a very casual slice of the world.

Unfortunate, because the 'romance' (for lack of a better term) seems to be all but gone from formal dining situations.
 

johnvw

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
875
Reaction score
58
Here's an idea--Why don't some of the SF members meet to discuss the general lowering of standards in all areas of life in US/world, the extent (if any) to which one can gauge a person's station in life and/or socioeconomic class by dress, and the degree to which a restaurant's having a dress code is a guarantee that its serves "fine food" at a meal? Oh, wait . . . who would pick the restaurant? (Maybe at someone's home . . . .)
 

EBugatti

Timed Out
Timed Out
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
504
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by mafoofan
You guys honestly care how other people dress?
facepalm.gif
Foo, you and your fellow young, brash, iconoclast whippersnappers (and don't tell me for a minute you don't care how others dress!!!) could learn something from this gent:
Originally Posted by Bounder
Admittedly, a lot of people have this attitude. They are entitled to it but I think it's a shame as they are missing out. Some of us, at least occasionally, go to restaurants with much higher expectations. We are seeking an experience, not satiation. I am going to repost one of the most compelling defenses of dress codes that I have ever read. - - The people who object to dress codes are missing the point. Why should everything be reduced to the lowest common denominator? There is plenty of space for people who want to dress casually when they dine. I do it myself. But there should also be a space for people who want to dine with a certain elan. There is a certain pleasure in attending black tie events if you enjoy that sort of thing. There is a sense of camaraderie — an unspoken understanding that, for tonight, we are a community with certain shared values. It would be inappropriate to attend wearing shorts, not only because it would be rude to the host but because it creates a jarring note in what should be a harmonious evening. By wearing shorts you are declaring that there is no community, no shared values. Perhaps this camaraderie is just an illusion, but it’s a pleasant one and you’re ruining it for everyone else. The same idea, albeit somewhat weakened, applies in restaurants with dress codes. By ignoring the dress code, you’re attacking the values of those who do follow it. “I spit on your bourgeois manners and outmoded sensibilities! I do what I want!” This may not be the message those who ignore dress codes intend to send but it’s the message those who follow them get. I don’t think this is something that people who ignore dress codes really understand but it explains a lot of the vehemence on the part of those who sometimes like to dress for dinner. - - I will add a couple of reasons of my own. First, when you are choosing a restaurant, do you consider the decor? Are you really indifferent to eating in a 16th century French chateau v. a McDonald's? For many of us, the ambiance can be an important part of the experience and your fellow diners are, for better or worse, a part of it. If you can ignore the guy sitting at the next table wearing a baseball cap with an outline of a naked lady on it and a "Kiss ******!" T-shirt while concentrating on the artwork on the walls, good for you. But some of us lack these powers of concentration. Second, I assume that everyone here has an interest in tailored clothing. Is it so wrong to want an excuse to wear it once in a while? You would -- or at least I would -- feel pretty stupid dressing up in a DJ and then going to eat at McDonalds. I'd feel almost equally ridiculous in an allegedly nice restaurant where the better dressed people are wearing trainers. But that is what everything is becoming, the lowest common denominator. It's a sartorial version of Gresham's law: Bad clothing drives out good. We should promote every opportunity to encourage people to at least put on a jacket. I would hope that even the people here who have no interest in dress codes can appreciate why some people do. Every place doesn't have to be a sports bar. There are plenty of places to be casual. Is it so bad to encourage the few remaining places that try to promote a sense of occasion? BTW, someone suggested to me that I create a list in the OP of these restaurants. I think that's a great idea. I have to run to the airport now but I will get that done ASAP.
Very well put. Bravo.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by forsbergacct2000
I have no problem with people who don't want to dress up. A lot of people in my church don't wear suits or sport coats. I just don't understand why it's a big deal to you that a restaurant might want to cater to a certain audience. I've played keyboards and sang in a lot of bands. I have no problem with them not wanting me to scream a hard rock song in a country bar. If I have a problem with that, I should not take the country gig. If I don't have a gig a certain night and want to play, I go with the flow. Your "Pot meet kettle" nonsense is meaningless.
Congratulations. Your analytical and reading comprehension skills are now at the same level as my shoe laces. Soon, they may even work up to the shoes themselves. Your analogy skills, however, need some work. Try including a kitten, a hot chick, and a car in there somewhere. I hear those are popular topics. If you'd read the thread, you would have realized that while I may enjoy dressing up for a meal, I do not see the point of insisting that the whole world follow a dress code to dine somewhere. I find the idea oddly unappealing (repulsive, even) to my sensibilities because of several reasons, not the least of which are because I value the freedom of choice and I inherently distrust meaningless elitism and snobbery. But mostly, it's because I really don't give a damn about how other people dress. Having to "enforce" something basic such as a dress code defeats the very purpose that it purports to uphold.
 

RSS

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
11,554
Reaction score
4,516
I still belong to a few of clubs that require coat and tie in the public areas. The one that is a country club allows a more casual attire at lunch ... but at dinner it's coat and tie only. I'm fine with these rules.

Hell ... I even dress for dinner at home.
 

RSS

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
11,554
Reaction score
4,516
Originally Posted by Metlin
For the same reason you don't like to be dressed up in a chicken costume, or apparently don't like others to dress the way they wish to.
Oh please ... are we now equating wearing a coat and tie with wearing a chicken costume? Have Cruiser and his AAAC gang hijacked Style Forum?
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by RSS
Oh please ... are we now equating wearing a coat and tie with wearing a chicken costume? Have Cruiser and his AAAC gang hijacked Style Forum?
If one were to insist that I dress up to eat a meal, I may as well dress up as a chicken. I'd still be miserable, but if not anything else, it'll at least be of entertainment value. Hyperbole is an excellent way of getting one's point across. Besides, what's normal to one man is costume to another. I have no problems against dressing up (personally) or others being dressed up. I just have a problem when some folks equate such a dress code with "class" and insist on snobbery and elitism in its name. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is mildly disturbing at best. Besides, Cruiser was a troll. The thoughts expressed here are my genuine opinion -- you may disagree with it, but there it is.
 

RSS

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
11,554
Reaction score
4,516
Originally Posted by Metlin
I have no problems against dressing up (personally) or others being dressed up. I just have a problem when some folks equate such a dress code with "class" and insist on snobbery and elitism in its name. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is mildly disturbing at best.
I certainly wouldn't equate it with class ... anyone can learn to dress well ... certainly a select few in residence here at SF have done so.
 

RSS

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
11,554
Reaction score
4,516
Originally Posted by Metlin
The thoughts expressed here are my genuine opinion -- you may disagree with it, but there it is.
I can respect that. I'm glad you put it this way.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by RSS
I certainly wouldn't equate it with class ... anyone can learn to dress well ... certainly a select few in residence here at SF have done so.
Here's my simple take on it. Let's assume that you feel comfortable in a certain ambiance, and part of the charm is from the social makeup of the crowd, which is reflected in many ways -- one of which is dress code. If an establishment were to truly send that message, then they would not need a rule that enforces a particular dress code. Such a restaurant would be self-selecting on the basis of several factors -- from the kind of wine they serve to the way their waiting staff are attired. Social pressure, pure and simple, will work its magic. On the other hand, when you draft a rule that explicitly dictates a particular dress code, then you are moving away from that self selection. On some level, you are sending the message that your target demographic is incapable of gauging the nature of the place they are dining in. At which point, the restaurant inherently because less attractive because you've imposed a superficial aspect (e.g. dress code) when you're really seeking to establish a fundamental baseline for the kind of crowd you want to attract. As such, enforcing a dress code is quite meaningless, and in my experience, most places that enforce a dress code (as opposed to their customers willingly dressing well in the absence of any) tend to have unremarkable food. Restaurants that are more honest about what they serve and reserved in their judgments of their customers (be they in denim or dinner jacket) instead tend to concentrate on the the most crucial element -- the food. As such, the customers are more willing to overlook the superficial (i.e. who cares how others dress, as long as I can truly relish my meal). And ironically, their customers also tend to be better dressed -- on their own accord.
 

RSS

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
11,554
Reaction score
4,516
Originally Posted by Metlin
most places that enforce a dress code (as opposed to their customers willingly dressing well in the absence of any) tend to have unremarkable food.
Your use of the word most makes this difficult to address. But in my experience, this is not true. I frequent few restaurants that have dress codes ... but those that do are outstanding.
 

mkarim

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
3,976
Reaction score
29
Originally Posted by Mr.K
I live in Charlotte and do not know of one place that has a dress code. I have been in high end places and had people in jeans and t-shirts a couple tables away. It is just part of why most countries see the US as a bunch of over indulgent slobs.

+100. Atlanta is the same way. They look at you strange if you're not dressed like a frat boy.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by RSS
Your use of the word most makes this difficult to address. But in my experience, this is not true. I frequent few restaurants that have dress codes ... but those that do are outstanding.
Ahh, but are they more outstanding than the latter category? And clearly, we have different opinions on what constitutes outstanding.
smile.gif
 

LA Guy

Opposite Santa
Admin
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
57,382
Reaction score
36,222
ime, with very few exceptions, metlin is correct. You go to a restaurant with great food, and you get well dressed clientele. The clientele are usually not all in suits and ties, in fact, suits and ties are probably in the minority, but the crowd is often quite fashionable and attractive.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.4%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 18.1%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,172
Messages
10,579,191
Members
223,888
Latest member
RoseBenif
Top