The parenting thread

Originally Posted by Makoto Chan

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Hey Alter, I'm a teacher working a few minutes away from the statue in your avatar. Small world!

I don't have any children nor any advice... just sayin' hi!

Hey Neighbour! I am living just a bit west of there...near the bridge.

I love these threads where the non-parents of SF tell the parents what to do.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I love these threads where the non-parents of SF tell the parents what to do.

I know, eh.

I'm looking forward to going through this.

I havent read what anyone else wrote, i simply envisioned my eldest son, now 3, and I in this same situation.

First thing i would have done was knelt down and hugged the **** out of him no matter what the report card said.

I'd encourage him to keep up the good work and be completely honest about why he isn't getting that Wii or explain clearly how to earn it or when he'll get one or an alternative to the Wii.

Then comes the ice cream. He can have some too if he wants.

Originally Posted by Alter

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The crying was more from the surprise that I was angry. I did talk to him and he said that the reason he cried was because he thought that getting 5 "Greats" was better than last term. He thought he only had 3 last time.

So he improves by two greats , and you give out to him for asking for a Wii. Nice going

Think of it like the employee that comes to you, the manager, after completing a task to demand a raise. The task was completed properly and the results are satisfactory but you know that the effort made wasn't as much as it could have been and the results could have been a lot better.

How to motivate the employee to do a better job in the future? Carrot or stick...or some combination of both?

You are treating your son like a business problem. That is cold, and he will end up resenting you, doing worse the next time just to piss you off. You need to act like a Dad, not a project manager. He comes to you looking for a 'rise' for doing well, and you say it's not good enough. Sounds to me like he doesn't get much one-on -one time with you and that you have bought him off before with gifts. Start doing things with him that don't offer tangible rewards, just time and company, then you will see increased production from your little weekend project.

Originally Posted by Annadale

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You are treating your son like a business problem. That is cold, and he will end up resenting you, doing worse the next time just to piss you off. You need to act like a Dad, not a project manager. He comes to you looking for a 'rise' for doing well, and you say it's not good enough. Sounds to me like he doesn't get much one-on -one time with you and that you have bought him off before with gifts. Start doing things with him that don't offer tangible rewards, just time and company, then you will see increased production from your little weekend project.

a kid is a business project - a father is in the business of raising his kids. it is the most important project of his life.

Originally Posted by Annadale

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You are treating your son like a business problem. That is cold, and he will end up resenting you, doing worse the next time just to piss you off. You need to act like a Dad, not a project manager. He comes to you looking for a 'rise' for doing well, and you say it's not good enough. Sounds to me like he doesn't get much one-on -one time with you and that you have bought him off before with gifts. Start doing things with him that don't offer tangible rewards, just time and company, then you will see increased production from your little weekend project.
You don't read well...and you make too many assumptions. How does one "act like a dad" in your world? In fact, I never tied any rewards to his report card at all. He did that himself...he is also the one that showed disappointment for not improving on his report card...not me. I am rather happy he made that assessment though. Improvement should be measurable...for business and for kids. Seriously, you have kids?

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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a kid is a business project - a father is in the business of raising his kids. it is the most important project of his life.
+1

Originally Posted by Alter

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Seriously, you have kids?

Yes, I do. I would not have been so presumptuous as to write without experience. I am sorry if it appeared a little snarky, but your predicament mirrors my own childhood, which I managed to avoid repeating, when raising my own kids. I know we guys are task driven, but raising kids is more than a 'project'.

Originally Posted by Annadale

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Yes, I do. I would not have been so presumptuous as to write without experience. I am sorry if it appeared a little snarky, but your predicament mirrors my own childhood, which I managed to avoid repeating, when raising my own kids. I know we guys are task driven, but raising kids is more than a 'project'.

Fair enough...would love to hear about some of your parenting techniques.

Another parent here--I would definitely not connect the Wii to grades, epecially for an 8 year old. In my experience rewards are de-motivating and a slippery slope as others have said. He has many more years of school, and it's best if he learns to do well because he wants to, either because he enjoys what he's doing or because he values good grades.

If he's distractible, pleasing teachers is probably more of a challenge and he may be doing the best he can. Grades eventually matter a lot in high school, but at his age, "good" would be good enough for me. No offense to any teachers here, but elementary teachers generally like boys who are on the calmer end of the spectrum. If your son is not, getting all "greats" isn't likely. More important than grades are the comments from the teachers that give insight to his social and learning skills.

Delay getting the Wii as long as you can. He needs to be playing outdoors, or building structures with blocks or Lego--once they get the game console, all that other stuff is over.

Originally Posted by sierra

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Another parent here--I would definitely not connect the Wii to grades, epecially for an 8 year old. In my experience rewards are de-motivating and a slippery slope as others have said. He has many more years of school, and it's best if he learns to do well because he wants to, either because he enjoys what he's doing or because he values good grades.

If he's distractible, pleasing teachers is probably more of a challenge and he may be doing the best he can. Grades eventually matter a lot in high school, but at his age, "good" would be good enough for me. No offense to any teachers here, but elementary teachers generally like boys who are on the calmer end of the spectrum. If your son is not, getting all "greats" isn't likely. More important than grades are the comments from the teachers that give insight to his social and learning skills.

Delay getting the Wii as long as you can. He needs to be playing outdoors, or building structures with blocks or Lego--once they get the game console, all that other stuff is over.

Nice post, sierra. Welcome to the forum.

I agree with all of that...and it is a very good point about the teachers. That has been my experience exactly.

The wii is not really an issue....it was a momentary request. He actually is saving up to buy himself a DS. He already has one to use but it is officially my wife's DS and he has to ask to borrow it if he wants to use it. He wants one of his own so he started saving up for it. This was all his own idea...and I think it is great.

Originally Posted by Alter

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The wii is not really an issue....it was a momentary request. He actually is saving up to buy himself a DS. He already has one to use but it is officially my wife's DS and he has to ask to borrow it if he wants to use it. He wants one of his own so he started saving up for it. This was all his own idea...and I think it is great.

What's your take on video games? My kids are younger and we're just starting to deal with their requests for them. I'm, at the moment, opposed to them. It's not because I think video games are evil, but that they're too interesting/fun. I worry that they end up making school seem boring. This is not to say that school isn't exciting or boring, but that the power of video games can make other parts of life more dull. Thus, rewarding success at school with a video game seem, down the road, somewhat contradictory.

If he is having attention problems, you need to stop him using television and computer games. Lego build blocks, Meccano, even building a bloody big train set with him. When imagination is fired, concentration follows. My kid had similar problems, so we as a family ditched the brain sucking box, and within weeks there was an improvement. It only works if you do it as a family, otherwise you will walk all over his sense of justice, which in kids is always black and white. Give him fish oil every day around 500 to 1000 mg, and walk the legs off the wee bugger. A contact sport like taekwondo etc is also good for concentration and co-ordination, and is useful when the other kids find out that he doesn't watch telly! Also sit with him when he does his homework. Kids learn by example. we had our boy trested at eleven by an educational psychologist, three years after finding out about his 'attention problem' and were very pleased that he was found to have the vocabulary of a 16/17 year old. Join your local library, and above all do things as a family. Thats all I can say.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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there is a difference between learning, doing well in school and curiosity. frankly, I don't think that my kid learns anything (specific) of importance in school, what he does learn is how to follow rules and instructions, apply himself to what the people in charge of him want from him, and conform. he learns a lot of other stuff at home.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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school isn't about learning facts, it is about preparing for life. you learn to deal with not very bright authority figures, you learn to deal with a group of randomly selected teammates of various abilities. you have to do projects assigned to you by the authority figures and cooperate with your team mates in doing so. you might, if you are lucky, have to negotiate with a bully on the way.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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oh, I think that the school my son is in is about the best there is, I have nothing against his school. there are probably a couple of private schools in the greater chicago area that are better, but the overall package would be worse - insanely expensive, full of kids who are so much richer than my kid that it would put him in a position of disadvantage, less diversity.

I'm not saying that my son's school doesn't teach him much, I am saying that elementary school academics aren't really worth very much, in general. he can explore his interest of the week at home, or in extra-curricular frameworks. for instance, he just expressed an interest in clockmaking, so we are experimenting with that.
Lots of good stuff here Globe -- you get it.

Originally Posted by sierra

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Another parent here--I would definitely not connect the Wii to grades, epecially for an 8 year old. In my experience rewards are de-motivating and a slippery slope as others have said. He has many more years of school, and it's best if he learns to do well because he wants to, either because he enjoys what he's doing or because he values good grades.

If he's distractible, pleasing teachers is probably more of a challenge and he may be doing the best he can. Grades eventually matter a lot in high school, but at his age, "good" would be good enough for me. No offense to any teachers here, but elementary teachers generally like boys who are on the calmer end of the spectrum. If your son is not, getting all "greats" isn't likely. More important than grades are the comments from the teachers that give insight to his social and learning skills.

Delay getting the Wii as long as you can. He needs to be playing outdoors, or building structures with blocks or Lego--once they get the game console, all that other stuff is over.

Originally Posted by Annadale

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If he is having attention problems, you need to stop him using television and computer games. Lego build blocks, Meccano, even building a bloody big train set with him. When imagination is fired, concentration follows. My kid had similar problems, so we as a family ditched the brain sucking box, and within weeks there was an improvement. It only works if you do it as a family, otherwise you will walk all over his sense of justice, which in kids is always black and white. Give him fish oil every day around 500 to 1000 mg, and walk the legs off the wee bugger. A contact sport like taekwondo etc is also good for concentration and co-ordination, and is useful when the other kids find out that he doesn't watch telly! Also sit with him when he does his homework. Kids learn by example. we had our boy trested at eleven by an educational psychologist, three years after finding out about his 'attention problem' and were very pleased that he was found to have the vocabulary of a 16/17 year old. Join your local library, and above all do things as a family. Thats all I can say.

Also excellent posts!

Finding balance is difficult, because kids will instinctively queer it as much as they can. Be patient and damned persistent -- think of how many repetitions it takes to get them to say "please" and "thank you" (literally thousands ) and you have some idea of the persistence that will be necessary in saying "NO" to too much screen time (of any kind). Steel yourself to the inevitable whining -- it will pay off. Remember, your kids have lots of friends -- they don't need another "friend", they need parenting.

ok, next question -

your kid goes on a playdate with a friends family to lunch and then walk around chinatown. you give him 10 dollars from his savings to spend.

he comes home, and says that he ran out of money and asked his friends mother for more money to buy an additional knicknack, spending a total of 14 dollars - so he tells you that he took 4 bucks from the mother.


what do you do?