Citizens On Patrol Thread...forum rules you would like to see

-merge the general chat and entertainment forums
-move all NSFW threads to dumb threads

Originally Posted by StephenHero

Click to expand...

-merge the general chat and entertainment forums
-move all NSFW threads to dumb threads

not bad thoughts. could feasibly move 90% of fine living there too

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

^^^ Do you put no stock at all in the "talked out" thesis?

I don't. This is a hobbyist site, for the most part, and people, by-and-large, do not tire of their hobbies. There are always new baubles to show off, and things to praise and criticize about those of others. The weekly contests, the regretted purchases, the WAYWT, will never run out of material for discussion, unless people stop wearing clothes or buying things, neither likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Click to expand...

I don't. This is a hobbyist site, for the most part, and people, by-and-large, do not tire of their hobbies. There are always new baubles to show off, and things to praise and criticize about those of others. The weekly contests, the regretted purchases, the WAYWT, will never run out of material for discussion, unless people stop wearing clothes or buying things, neither likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

Seems to me like there is a lot less interesting talk about good clothes in MC than there was formerly.

I could be wrong about that. It's certainly my perception. But at the very least for my perception to have changed, something on the site is likely to have changed. I am just speculating as to the cause. You are stating reasons why the phenomenon I am describing should not happen. I am more trying to explain why something that I perceive to have happened did in fact happen.

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

Seems to me like there is a lot less interesting talk about good clothes in MC than there was formerly.

I could be wrong about that. It's certainly my perception. But at the very least for my perception to have changed, something on the site is likely to have changed. I am just speculating as to the cause. You are stating reasons why the phenomenon I am describing should not happen. I am more trying to explain why something that I perceive to have happened did in fact happen.

I think that the type of discussion are quite different then they were in 2005, but I think that they are not less interesting. At least, that's my perception.

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

You are stating reasons why the phenomenon I am describing should not happen. I am more trying to explain why something that I perceive to have happened did in fact happen.

that's interesting and i've observed it myself on other fora ... could it be that you're the one who's changing? i've been a member of several food fora -- my own small area of expertise -- and while at first i really enjoy the give-and-take and helping answer questions, at a certain point, i burn out on answering the same questinos over and over (and arguing ... and in several cases, having my own books cited back to me as reasons i'm wrong). to maintain interest, there has to be a healthy mix ... people who know more than I do, peers, and the rest who are looking for advice. my guess is that you're in somewhat the same situation. at a certain point, when you're just teaching and no longer finding that much to learn, you get a little cranky (not you personally ... let's say "one does").

Originally Posted by dah328

Click to expand...

Can't you partially automate the process by doing something such as sorting the member list by IP address and noting duplicates? Identifying socks just by the nature of their posts is not always an easy thing.

no, but it is the thing that sparks the conspiracy theories and gets everyone talking....

Originally Posted by Gibonius

Click to expand...

I'm still a noob as well, and certainly not knowledgeable enough about clothing to contribute in MC, which is the section that brought me here. I try to contribute where I can, which ends up being random threads on the lifestyle boards.

I lurked here for months before I registered; it's an intimidating forum, especially for people with little clothing knowledge. I'm a seasoned Internet Forum Veteran, but this place had me on edge for months until I sank into the vernacular and culture a bit. For people with clothing experience OR internet experience, a few jackass posts in their first thread will chase them away forever. Even many with clothing knowledge could be easily scared off by a barrage of snark if they're not used to it.


The cycle of the forum is pretty common for knowledge based forums, you see the same on fitness forums, automotive forums, computer, etc, etc. Forum regulars get tired of posting the same stuff, and either stop posting or get mean. I don't like the idea of knowledge forums becoming semi-interaction FAQs, so I have no problem with the same well-meaning questions getting asked over and over again. Go to a fitness forum and ask about Rippetoe, some forums will tear you apart for being a moron and not searching, others will be friendly and helpful. I prefer the latter, but it's just something that seems an intrinsic part of the culture. SF has a bit of a split personality right now, and this thread is basically about trying to nudge the forum one way or the other.

As far as the Inner Circle stuff goes, I'm not part of it and probably never will be, but it's sort of amusing and an unavoidable part of any forum. Part of the meta experience. This place really isn't as clique-y as many others, noobs can at least get responses in most of the subforums.

SW&D's structure seems to me the most stiffling/overwhelming, basically just a bunch of massive official/pinned threads with very high standards for starting new threads. I find it almost impossible to penetrate, but I'm outside that sphere to begin with. It may work for them, but it does seem very odd simply from a forum accessibility standpoint.

CE is a freakshow, but most political forums devolve into that given time. I've seen it happen many times, you need dozens of posters with sufficient knowledge and stamina to keep them going without it turning into a personal attack exchange. Most forums can't sustain productive debate for all that long.

No opinion on DT, never interested me. I have other forums for that sort of thing. Doesn't bother me, but the "DT Everywhere" business is obviously absurd. People really shouldn't have to guess if a thread in one of the real sub-fora is serious or not. The whole concept leads to constant mockery of serious threads by well-meaning noobs, simply because people are so used to marsupialed sock threads.

thanks for this post. Appreciated.

Originally Posted by Matt

Click to expand...

no, but it is the thing that sparks the conspiracy theories and gets everyone talking....
That's only part of it, though. As others have pointed out, a frequent purpose of socks is to post in a provocative or trolling manner that does not reflect poorly on one's "real" online personae or risk the forfeiture of a valuable account for B&S, etc. The sock's provocative and trolling posts can be detrimental to the forum whether or not they are recognized as socks.

Of course, the fact that people are misidentifying real posters as socks says something about the nature of their posts. Certain members whose demonstrated or even expressed purpose is to troll other members (javyn, AB, a variety of SW&D posters, etc.) should probably be kept on a shorter leash.

I just skimmed the thread. Lots of good ideas. A few random thoughts:

Like Manton, etc., I too would prefer that people be more civil. But like Vox, etc., I wouldn't want it to lose the wit, etc.

I joined the LL several months before joining SF. SF scared me at first, but I found it had more to offer than the LL (on a global level, not necessarily on a post by post basis). I think this is due in part to the "wild west" nature of SF. SF used to be well policed by its own members. But there grew a group that tears down anything good out of personally resentment.

At its best, SF has guys devoted to excellence in every field. At its worst, it has guys devoted to tearing down excellence in every field. I'm not sure how exactly to deal with it.

Too much of the humor being mentioned in MC is just snark filled attempts at becoming an internet all star. Personally, I rarely go in there anymore, but what ruined it for me were not the noobs, but the veterans getting too full of themselves. I'd be thrilled to wade back in if it became tolerable, and not a race to see who can impress the most with their e-lifestyle.

^I agree w/ you to some extent, but I tend to view most of that stuff as sharing more than bragging. The obvious braggarts need our pity more than our anger.

Originally Posted by iammatt

Click to expand...

Too much of the humor being mentioned in MC is just snark filled attempts at becoming an internet all star. Personally, I rarely go in there anymore, but what ruined it for me were not the noobs, but the veterans getting too full of themselves. I'd be thrilled to wade back in if it became tolerable, and not a race to see who can impress the most with their e-lifestyle.

I know what you mean but it can be a hard line to find.

I suppose by some standards I am "big time" in that I am dumb enough to spend so much money on clothes and not poor enough to go broke doing so. But I do/did genuinely enjoy doing things like the Naples thread and having a conversation based on that. Yes, it helps to be able to go to Naples and buy a bunch of stuff, etc. It's not meant to be boasting, just sharing. If you, Jan, foo and others had not blazed that trail and disclosed what you bought, where and why, I would never have had the urge or the nerve. I'd hate to lose good threads because people will fear they will be accused of boasting.

Anyway, I know you are not talking about me so this is just so much bilge.

I'm generally ok with the content here on SF but some members really do take it to another level of douchery. I'm not into that, and I don't see too many moderators keeping things in check. I come from another forum that is mature, or at least moderated that way.

When I'm surfing SF, and click on a thread that interests me, I am already expecting 60%+ of the posts to be B.S. responses, sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong. Will that change? I'm not with high hopes.

Change comes from within.

Originally Posted by Monaco

Click to expand...

I'm not into that, and I don't see too many moderators keeping things in check.
very very fine line there. A lot of the members here came across from a once-very-similar forum and are extremely sensitive to excessive levels of moderator involvement.