Citizens On Patrol Thread...forum rules you would like to see

Or Queen Elizabeth saying, "Cracker, no wayz I'm reading all that ****"?

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Or Queen Elizabeth saying, "Cracker, no wayz I'm reading all that ****"?

I humbly submit:

Originally Posted by dah328

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Perhaps you could offer some sort of incentive (extra privileges in the B&S forum or something along those lines?) to members who could contribute articles of sufficient quality. AAAC has a number of such articles (although the content in most of them is of poor quality) posted on their main page and I suspect that drives a lot of google traffic to their site. If you were to have some solid articles that answered a lot of questions about either men's tailored clothing or SW&D, I bet you'd see your site traffic increase. Those kind of front page articles might also be a good place for ads (if the revenue is of any interest) since they wouldn't necessarily be part of the forum.

We have a cute idea for this type of thing currently percolating.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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IMO. DT and CE should be visible to 18 plus aged people for obvious reasons. Noob thread starts should be moderated for X time or until X posts are made. That steers them to at least add some content in existing threads. Ban the socks and out them in a locked pinned thread. I bet most of the dickheadedness will end. I'm an affiliate and I say what I say under no cover of a sock. Is it always in my best interests? Some say no but I disagree but that's a topic for another day.



But isn't one part of the equation as stated in the OP for the site to become stickier to new members? And as stated in previous poasts, its seems that the mundane "interview attire" threads by n00bs are trivially annoying at best so IMhumbleO I don't think this will help to drive engagement for n00bies or help to salvage existing relationships with the established.


I think one point that has not been discussed in this thread (unless i missed it which i have the tendency to do) from a membership statndpoint is that as MC & SW&D's FS forum improves (as I've heard the mods talk about for buyers and sellers), it should improve overall attendance and experience for many.

As SF's classified are in a league of their own already, I'm pretty confident that its the basis for a LOT of initial signups. Even if newbs don't actually purchase, they start to become engaged in the information presented in the sale threads and from the hunt for cheap goods.

Moer of a jumbled thought than suggestion, but whatevs.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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It's one thing to have a post or two about it, but it's another when there are entire (very popular, I might add) threads talking about "fat anglo housewives." What do you think that would do to any even reasonably-minded woman browsing here?
I think that's a combination of a running forum meme and a bit of misogyny. Similar to "knees are too sharp!"

vox corbera is complaining about socks and snarky replies?

btw, much of the mean sarcastic replies to noobs stemmed from people trying to act like vox

-- Karma systems encourage the good samaritans in other forums / social sites. Right now the only metric attached to an account is post count. A lot of posters are vain about their post count, and to some extent this makes the post count number counterproductive. It seems to encourage bad behavior -- i.e., posting for the sake of posting. Attaching some other metric to an account could encourage good behavior if the metric is made well. I have no idea how to write or implement a QB rating for posters, but it seems like a good idea in the abstract. -- Noob threads could be tagged. On the whole I enjoy the noob postings more than I find them annoying, but it can be an even mix at times. They clutter the front page, and people do ask questions that could be answered with a search, and people do start threads for topics that already have their own thread (or belong in a broader thread). But there can be some charm in the way noobs word their requests, and it can be satisfying to help even the drive-by noobs to solve their shoe problems or whatever. Instead of moderating noob threads -- too much work for mods -- why not tag them with something like [noob], and then it will be easy enough for the people who find these threads annoying, to ignore them. E.g. Help identifying logo would appear as [noob] Help identifying logo And threads that are not by noobs but look, at first glance, to be authored by a noob, such as Where can I get this hat? won't be marked. And this suggests to experienced readers that the thread might be worth opening.

How hard would it be to set it up so that one could (optionally) just have their account set to "ignore" threads started by members with <10 posts?

i'm a noob here and probably atypical (i came looking khakis of all things, and stayed for the community). but i have been on fora for a long time ... as have most of you, i know. but take a look at the front page right now and you'll see that there are 1,800+ people "currently active", which i take to mean browsing the site. there are more than 500 in MC alone ... and, of course 6 (six) in CE ... i guess what it adds up to for me is that as much as i find some of the behavior in each of the forums unpleasant, there seem to be plenty of people enjoying the site just as it is. I'm all in favor of trimming around the edges, but let's not go overboard trying to solve problems that we don't really have and as a result, driving more people away.
in the end, it is the internet and we do have the options of just ignoring the things that bother us. as much as i had hoped to find intelligent dinner table conversation on CE, that just wasn't going to happen (using Manton's analogy, like walking into Freddie's Ring Club looking for foie gras and sauternes). The answer isn't to change CE, but for me to look for that elsewhere, though i'll certainly stick around here ... partly for cooking, partly because i'm oddly fascinated by MC ... mostly because there are some good, funny, smart guys that I've come to like.

I'm still a noob as well, and certainly not knowledgeable enough about clothing to contribute in MC, which is the section that brought me here. I try to contribute where I can, which ends up being random threads on the lifestyle boards.

I lurked here for months before I registered; it's an intimidating forum, especially for people with little clothing knowledge. I'm a seasoned Internet Forum Veteran, but this place had me on edge for months until I sank into the vernacular and culture a bit. For people with clothing experience OR internet experience, a few jackass posts in their first thread will chase them away forever. Even many with clothing knowledge could be easily scared off by a barrage of snark if they're not used to it.


The cycle of the forum is pretty common for knowledge based forums, you see the same on fitness forums, automotive forums, computer, etc, etc. Forum regulars get tired of posting the same stuff, and either stop posting or get mean. I don't like the idea of knowledge forums becoming semi-interaction FAQs, so I have no problem with the same well-meaning questions getting asked over and over again. Go to a fitness forum and ask about Rippetoe, some forums will tear you apart for being a moron and not searching, others will be friendly and helpful. I prefer the latter, but it's just something that seems an intrinsic part of the culture. SF has a bit of a split personality right now, and this thread is basically about trying to nudge the forum one way or the other.

As far as the Inner Circle stuff goes, I'm not part of it and probably never will be, but it's sort of amusing and an unavoidable part of any forum. Part of the meta experience. This place really isn't as clique-y as many others, noobs can at least get responses in most of the subforums.

SW&D's structure seems to me the most stiffling/overwhelming, basically just a bunch of massive official/pinned threads with very high standards for starting new threads. I find it almost impossible to penetrate, but I'm outside that sphere to begin with. It may work for them, but it does seem very odd simply from a forum accessibility standpoint.

CE is a freakshow, but most political forums devolve into that given time. I've seen it happen many times, you need dozens of posters with sufficient knowledge and stamina to keep them going without it turning into a personal attack exchange. Most forums can't sustain productive debate for all that long.

No opinion on DT, never interested me. I have other forums for that sort of thing. Doesn't bother me, but the "DT Everywhere" business is obviously absurd. People really shouldn't have to guess if a thread in one of the real sub-fora is serious or not. The whole concept leads to constant mockery of serious threads by well-meaning noobs, simply because people are so used to marsupialed sock threads.

Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser

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I'm probably in the minority on this, but one of the main problems is posters treating SF like a blog rather than a forum. It's one thing to post about your trip to Naples or your cooking class that's going to lead to some fruitful discussions of interest to the community. It's quite another to start a vanity thread whose only purpose is to call attention to yourself. It doesn't help that many of these threads are the most puerile as well. I don't think anything can be done about this trend other than ask members to be more judicious about starting threads.

I don't really have a problem with this at all. I actually thing some of the best threads have started out as blog-like (Manton's Cooking School thread, for example). Some start out funny, or interesting but then fade off or I just lose interest (RedCaiman's comes to mind). When they do I just skip over them.

There is so much content on this site that I probably don't get to 1/3 of it and I'm on here constantly. I do think it's pretty easy to just skip past a lot of this kind of thing if it doesn't appeal to you.

Originally Posted by foodguy

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i'm a noob here and probably atypical (i came looking khakis of all things, and stayed for the community). but i have been on fora for a long time ... as have most of you, i know. but take a look at the front page right now and you'll see that there are 1,800+ people "currently active", which i take to mean browsing the site. there are more than 500 in MC alone ... and, of course 6 (six) in CE ... i guess what it adds up to for me is that as much as i find some of the behavior in each of the forums unpleasant, there seem to be plenty of people enjoying the site just as it is. I'm all in favor of trimming around the edges, but let's not go overboard trying to solve problems that we don't really have and as a result, driving more people away.
in the end, it is the internet and we do have the options of just ignoring the things that bother us. as much as i had hoped to find intelligent dinner table conversation on CE, that just wasn't going to happen (using Manton's analogy, like walking into Freddie's Ring Club looking for foie gras and sauternes). The answer isn't to change CE, but for me to look for that elsewhere, though i'll certainly stick around here ... partly for cooking, partly because i'm oddly fascinated by MC ... mostly because there are some good, funny, smart guys that I've come to like.

I'm all for making changes (some need to be made) but I basically agree with this post. I'm one of the ones that has burned out on MC for the most part (although I never was a big contributor so much as a reader). But I still hang out here a lot and it's mostly for the atmosphere. There's a balance between keeping the place free and hip and whatever and keeping it from becoming a sewer. I don't have the answers, but I'd hate to see the forum lose it's edge.

Also, I'm glad to see Manton is still around on at least a limited basis.

I have no complaints about this site.

The premise of this thread, however, is that something about the way that it works right now could benefit from changes. I do not know if this is true overall since Matt explains that the guys who run it see SF changing into more of lifestyle board. If true, then that by itself dilutes the presence and relative importance of discussions centered around classic mens clothes and style. And that's the subject that interests me, particularly from a bespoke angle.

The member responses in this thread seem overwhelming in favor of this evolution. So, bravo.

I have to admit that I do not quite understand the whole concern over new members. The place is crawling with them, thousands, with scores more "joining" every day. I do not know how much of a subset this membership group is of the overall numbers of eyes on the pages among those who are not members, but I suspect the latter is more substantial still. There are, thus, ample resources for passive education and fact finding.

The largest dose of concern in this thread seems to be for that subset of n00b, The Thread-starting Questioner. My feeling is that in the Mens Clothing forum, a lot of this is spam, sock puppetry, or activity by people who will never contribute any interesting new content no matter how much effort is spent coddling their ignorance or lack of self confidence.

One can feel sympathetic to the latter, especially if you're the type of senior member posting in this thread who sees a past Style Form version of yourself in such posters, but does concentrating remedies there really make the Mens Clothing forum interesting?

I am sure that I will get a lot of disgreement about this, but the engine that drives the Mens Clothing is the presence of experienced and knowledgable people. The main draw for the presence of such members is the presence of other members who are similar in knowledge and with whom you might have an intelligent discussion, argument, or revelation about classic mens dressing.

Like I said earlier, there are not thousands of such guys. There are few. Some are assholes or psychotics who have to be and were banned. Some you might keep by other apples on the tree, whether CE or wine or whatever. In the end, though, you can't have a good Mens Clothing forum without good Mens Clothing forum threads and posts.

^^^ Do you put no stock at all in the "talked out" thesis?

Originally Posted by Manton

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^^^ Do you put no stock at all in the "talked out" thesis?

do you put none in the "naked foo" thesis?