Black Swan

Originally Posted by A Y

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The pain and struggle is mostly true, but the rest of it, including the self-flagellation, is false. The complaint is that the movie is a caricature of the ballet world, but that wouldn't be a new complaint for most movies on most subjects. --Andre
Are you taking the term self-flaggelation literally? As in, ballet dancers literally beat or whip themselves? Cause I'm pretty sure that's not what she's saying. As for the rest of it, one could probably say that they are speaking from personal experience, having likely worked with many professional ballet dancers over the course of filming this movie. If the ballet dancers they were working with were eating celery for lunch instead of cheeseburgers, and not going out and drinking all night during a season - I don't see how that's any less accurate than anything else. Did anyone get all pissy like this about The Wrestler?

A Y is a ballerina. I just wanted to put that out there.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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Are you taking the term self-flaggelation literally? As in, ballet dancers literally beat or whip themselves? Cause I'm pretty sure that's not what she's saying.

Not literally, but the implicated self-abuse. They are as self-abusive to their bodies as any other elite athlete, and of course, one doesn't reach that level without a bit of self-abuse. But to paint that as their entire world?

As for the rest of it, one could probably say that they are speaking from personal experience, having likely worked with many professional ballet dancers over the course of filming this movie. If the ballet dancers they were working with were eating celery for lunch instead of cheeseburgers, and not going out and drinking all night during a season - I don't see how that's any less accurate than anything else.

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They did work with many ballet dancers, and one of the top companies in the US (New York City Ballet). The ballet world cooperated with them extensively. Portman is also dating Benjamin Millepied, the choreographer for the movie and a principal dancer for City Ballet. That's the highest rank in a ballet company --- he's one of their star dancers. So one would think they would know better, but as you say, this is only a movie, and not a documentary. It doesn't mean I can't be grumpy about it.

They do not eat only celery for lunch, and they do eat cheeseburgers. I've had many a meal with ballet dancers with cheeseburgers, french fries, loads of pasta, loads of dim sum, ice cream, you name it. And no, they didn't go in the restroom and puke it out after the meal. It's a young profession, and they go out and live life mostly like the young 20-somethings that they are. There is incredible discipline during work, but beyond that ...

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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A Y is a ballerina. I just wanted to put that out there.

If that were true, the term would be ballerino for a male dancer. Since that sounds ridiculous to most people, they're usually just called danseurs.

You have one of the best American ballet companies in your backyard, Pacific Northwest Ballet. Go see their Nutcracker. Use the code PEACOCK for 30 percent off on some of their shows this week.

--Andre

Originally Posted by A Y

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It doesn't mean I can't be grumpy about it.
Yes it does. Quit being grumpy about it. Remember that most people, when they watch athletes do stuff, tend to think "Well, I could do that". or "That doesn't look that hard". This is what happens when those people actually try to do it. "Wow, this hurts pretty bad"

They do not eat only celery for lunch, and they do eat cheeseburgers. I've had many a meal with ballet dancers with cheeseburgers, french fries, loads of pasta, loads of dim sum, ice cream, you name it. And no, they didn't go in the restroom and puke it out after the meal. It's a young profession, and they go out and live life mostly like the young 20-somethings that they are. There is incredible discipline during work, but beyond that ...

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Funny, because this is pretty much exactly what's depicted in the movie. Not to mention staying out late, getting drunk, taking E, making out with strange dudes at bars, etc. Thinking that Natalie Portman's character is supposed to "represent" ballet dancers is like thinking Norman Bates is supposed to "represent" motel owners.

If that were true, the term would be ballerino for a male dancer. Since that sounds ridiculous to most people, they're usually just called danseurs.

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You assume that I meant you are a male dancer. Which I did not. I said you were a ballerina and I'm sticking by it.

You have one of the best American ballet companies in your backyard, Pacific Northwest Ballet. Go see their Nutcracker. Use the code PEACOCK for 30 percent off on some of their shows this week. --Andre

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Thanks, but I'm obsessively saving money and acquiring items for my trip to Japan. I've seen it before though. I didn't even buy discounted SIFF tickets during the sale today.

God damn it. You kids get off my lawn!

--Andre

So pathetic when an industry person or fan boy tries to pick apart a 2 hour movie attempting to tell a story while depicting parts of the world of a specialty industry. It's a ******* movie. Get the **** over it and eat a cheeseburger.

Originally Posted by A Y

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And they do like to go out, party, and eat good food --- not that different than regular people really.


Oh and do they like to party. OTOH the ones I have met do seem careful as to what they eat.

I think it was pretty obvious that the movie portrayed Natalie Portman as self-obsessed, and not really anyone else. Mila Kunis certainly wasn't self-obsessed.

Originally Posted by A Y

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I haven't seen it yet, but plan to despite what I said. I just wish he didn't feel the need to play up the popular stereotypes of ballet to make his movie. --Andre
Then, for God's sake don't watch Centerstage. A hoot, in a pathetic way.

Originally Posted by A Y

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They do not eat only celery for lunch, and they do eat cheeseburgers. I've had many a meal with ballet dancers with cheeseburgers, french fries, loads of pasta, loads of dim sum, ice cream, you name it. And no, they didn't go in the restroom and puke it out after the meal. It's a young profession, and they go out and live life mostly like the young 20-somethings that they are. There is incredible discipline during work, but beyond that ...

True. I've worked with Ballet Rambert, London Contemporary Dance Theatre, English National Ballet, Touring Royal Ballet, Sadlers Wells, etc, and many of the women smoke like chimneys. That surprised me.

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

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Saw Black Swan last night. It was good as far as modern movies go. A few over the top parts, and parts that just show off effects. A lot of Aronofsky sexuality. I am sure a lot of people who have not seen really good movies will rave.

How smug

Originally Posted by HORNS

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Sigged.

Im truly honored Horn. But an update...Miranda has yet to walk by....ill keep everyone posted.

Originally Posted by audiophilia

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Then, for God's sake don't watch Centerstage. A hoot, in a pathetic way.

Center Stage is a classic. It's one of those movies that's so bad that it becomes good.

Originally Posted by audiophilia

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True. I've worked with Ballet Rambert, London Contemporary Dance Theatre, English National Ballet, Touring Royal Ballet, Sadlers Wells, etc, and many of the women smoke like chimneys. That surprised me.

Yeah, I was thinking about the smoking too. During breaks, almost everyone is outside smoking.

--Andre

Originally Posted by harvey_birdman

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What other American movie in current release would you qualify as a "good movie"?

Good point. None, of them. They all suck.

I finally got to see the movie today. I enjoyed it. Loved the music and the energy of everything. Anybody else who has seen it think the Mom was VERY creepy? How about that scene with the cake?