Gun Appreciation Thread

Originally Posted by Avocat

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As to bears, Norcal's right. Spray is better than a gun--i.e., shoot a grizzly and all you're likely to do is make it angry at you (good call, Norcal). Bear of all kinds are naturally shy of humans. Carrying a noisemaker to announce your presence so they stay away is a good idea, with chemical sprays on hand in the event of an encounter.

This is not true and something that will get you killed. Pepper spray is an adequate deterrent under very specific circumstances. If it's too cold it won't spray. Wind of any kind can make it nearly impossible to deploy effectively. It's range is limited to about 30 feet under ideal conditions. Less than ideal would be a matter of a few feet. No thanks. Hell pepper spray doesn't work against determined human attackers so what would make you think it would work against a determined animal attack? Good luck deploying it into the wind. You won't be going anywhere and just made yourself easy pickens.

Any firearm of adequate caliber with proper ammunition yielded by a competent shooter is far and away a better choice. A bear is like any other land animal. If you know it's anatomy you can stop an attack immediately with one well placed shot. Even if you don't have an immediate incapacitation a mortal wound lessens the length of time of an attack which is obviously beneficial to you. I could go on about multiple CNS/vital area hits but there really is no point other than to say it stops the attack quickly and permanently. Obviously other benefits include range and little concern for wind or temperature when out and about.

Pepper spray was adopted so hikers/fishers in locals that do not allow one to carry a firearm have some means to defend themselves against an animal attack. It's also the choice of people who are anti gun or do not feel confident in their ability to use one when required.

It's better than nothing so if that's your choice have at it. I personally would rather have a good solid spear.

Originally Posted by dcg

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Thoughts on a S&W 642/442 vs. S&W 340 M&P vs. Ruger LCR as a first gun w/ the potential for future CCW?

I suspect the 340 is the best, but not sure it's worth the extra cost (I never ended up settling on any of the .22s I was looking for a few months back, and the difference between the 340 and the other two could probably get me most of the way to a nice mk III).

JustinW, I think I saw that you carry a 340 PD. I assume you're happy with it? Are the CT grips a must have on a gun like these? Any issues as a lefty?

honestly for CCW id choose a revolver everytime. Ive carried a lot of different pistols from glocks to colt 1911s to revolvers....a revolver EVERYTIME. just easier to conceal.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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This is not true and something that will get you killed. Pepper spray is an adequate deterrent under very specific circumstances. If it's too cold it won't spray. Wind of any kind can make it nearly impossible to deploy effectively. It's range is limited to about 30 feet under ideal conditions. Less than ideal would be a matter of a few feet. No thanks. Hell pepper spray doesn't work against determined human attackers so what would make you think it would work against a determined animal attack? Good luck deploying it into the wind. You won't be going anywhere and just made yourself easy pickens.

Any firearm of adequate caliber with proper ammunition yielded by a competent shooter is far and away a better choice. A bear is like any other land animal. If you know it's anatomy you can stop an attack immediately with one well placed shot. Even if you don't have an immediate incapacitation a mortal wound lessens the length of time of an attack which is obviously beneficial to you. I could go on about multiple CNS/vital area hits but there really is no point other than to say it stops the attack quickly and permanently. Obviously other benefits include range and little concern for wind or temperature when out and about.

Pepper spray was adopted so hikers/fishers in locals that do not allow one to carry a firearm have some means to defend themselves against an animal attack. It's also the choice of people who are anti gun or do not feel confident in their ability to use one when required.

It's better than nothing so if that's your choice have at it. I personally would rather have a good solid spear.

Your comment is valid insofar as it relates to proper use of bear spray. Then, this is also true of people who haven't mastered their guns. My choice would be shotgun since they can fire rubber bullets, shell crackers, screamers, blanks, pellets and slugs and, in appropriate circumstances, deter the bear (teaching it to be afraid of humans, without endangering the grizzly species). That said, many parks don't allow guns, and your chances of meeting up with a dangerous bear isn't that high, provided proper precautions are taken -- like noisemakers, keeping your camp clean, your dog on a leash at all times (so as not to run off and come back with a bear) and learning to identify the different habits of the different species (there's a ton of great info out there, which is to be had simply by googling). That said, in Alaska and northern BC, everyone carries bear spray, and it is effective (and in some cases, your only choice). But, yes, it must be used right, and proper precautions at all times taken, too. Most true, I agree. And for g-d's sakes never go near a bear, or go anywhere near a cub (because mommy bear is never far behind). You'd think that that would be common sense, but I continue to read about dumb weekend hikers heading out and getting mauled by a bear, trying to take its picture or play with a cub. And if you choose to get a proper caliber gun (or shotgun) instead, be sure to know how to use it, I agree.

Avocat

Most animal "attacks" are either posturing or some other form of dominance behavior. Loud noises, rubber bullets, spray and just your behavior can stop them. This is what most people find themselves dealing with. Hell if people understood this there would be far less dog attacks let alone wild animal attacks.

My concern is picking the right gear that offers the best all around protection against the real deal type of attack as rare as it is. It sounds like you know your way around the wilds so you know the problem with equipment. You also know time in the field directly correlates to an increased chance of an encounter. So anyway,yeah my Bennelli M1 Super 90 would be perfect against big nasty NA animals that wanted to do me in. Would I carry it fly fishing in Montana? Probably but my luck would be it'll be 15 feet from me when I turn around and see a grizzly cub sneaking up behind me. LOL. I guess I would be going for a cold swim. It certainly wouldn't be with me if I was hiking a steep grade 3 or higher trail, especially at high altitudes. To cumbersome and heavy. Then there's the whole trail etiquette thing to contend with too.

My decision to get the 329PD has taken a while. For my particular situation it's the best all around choice for what I do.

And her's a pic of a Raven I took in Yellowstone. It was sitting on the door mirror begging for food while I was in the car with the window rolled down. This is what happens when people feed them. No more natural fear of people. The bear, elk and bison are the same way. I watched an idiot get his ass trampled by an elk in the middle of the Mammoth Hot Springs complex. He went to pet it which is just dumb. It went from grazing to ass stomping in a millisecond. No warning at all.

anyway....


_DSC4807 by DYSong Photography, on Flickr

Daniel Defense upper (via smartgunner.com - the custom DD uppers are pretty much the best deal going in ARs right now, though wait times appear to be getting into longer ranges) arrived today. BCM BCG & charging handle get here tomorrow, Magpul XTM rail covers are coming... some day.

DD lower, G&R Tactical parts kit, FDE MOE grip, FDE ACS stock,
DD upper, 16" government profile midlength gas system, 12.0 Lite Rail, Yankee Hill Phantom Flash Hider, Magpul AFG2

Low depth of field picture (it was dark, I shot at f/2.8), also with my Bond Arms derringer (currently with the .22lr barrels for fun) and my dad's Sig X5 Tactical that I borrowed this week to try (it's awesome)


DSC_2539.jpg by celluloidpropaganda, on Flickr

I would never enter grizzly country without being armed with a rifle, and at least 1 other person with me who is also armed with a rifle (preferably 2 others). If the park doesn't allow it, I wouldn't go. This are certain things that are just plain stupid (especially when those situations are easily avoided), and walking around grizzly territory unarmed is one of them.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Avocat Most animal "attacks" are either posturing or some other form of dominance behavior. Loud noises, rubber bullets, spray and just your behavior can stop them. This is what most people find themselves dealing with. Hell if people understood this there would be far less dog attacks let alone wild animal attacks. My concern is picking the right gear that offers the best all around protection against the real deal type of attack as rare as it is. It sounds like you know your way around the wilds so you know the problem with equipment. You also know time in the field directly correlates to an increased chance of an encounter. So anyway,yeah my Bennelli M1 Super 90 would be perfect against big nasty NA animals that wanted to do me in. Would I carry it fly fishing in Montana? Probably but my luck would be it'll be 15 feet from me when I turn around and see a grizzly cub sneaking up behind me. LOL. I guess I would be going for a cold swim. It certainly wouldn't be with me if I was hiking a steep grade 3 or higher trail, especially at high altitudes. To cumbersome and heavy. Then there's the whole trail etiquette thing to contend with too. My decision to get the 329PD has taken a while. For my particular situation it's the best all around choice for what I do. And her's a pic of a Raven I took in Yellowstone. It was sitting on the door mirror begging for food while I was in the car with the window rolled down. This is what happens when people feed them. No more natural fear of people. The bear, elk and bison are the same way. I watched an idiot get his ass trampled by an elk in the middle of the Mammoth Hot Springs complex. He went to pet it which is just dumb. It went from grazing to ass stomping in a millisecond. No warning at all. anyway.... _DSC4807 by DYSong Photography, on Flickr
Crane, I've heard a lot of great things about the 329PD even as it relates to grizzly concerns (though some complain about the recoil, sounds to me like a really nice all-rounder, thus a very nice decision, from what I've read about it). I trust you're enjoying it in good health In CDN parks where guns are permitted, it's shotguns and long-guns up here, I'm afraid; handguns are either illegal or severely restricted (*sigh* ... gun politics! ). Did a lot of hunting with my father up in northern ON and PQ mainly (no grizzly there, but blacks you have to watch out for), with trips out to the Rockies (all bear are there, depending on how far north you go). Browns and blacks roam the southern rockies, moms leading their cubs across major hwys even (and yes, people stop and toss them food so as to take their pic--it's mind-boggling). My last adventure a couple years ago was on horseback, and we didn't encounter any bear on that one, though we definitely admired a lot of herbivore from a distance (including mountain goats-I personally wouldn't want to mess with one of them either--i.e., I so hear you on that!). It was a lot of fun. Wolves aren't really a problem, staying away from humans (only one encounter for me, saw about 3 of them run off from a clearing back into the woods from a safe vantage point above, which was pretty cool, and haven't seen any since). Coyotes are a different story, though, and are becoming a problem everywhere. I'm also hearing an increasing number of stories about mountain lion attacks, stalking humans sometimes, with bear attacks also on the rise in BC. One even climbed onto a boat in a well populated marina in BC--indeed, while rare, it sometimes can't be avoided, no matter how many precautions one takes (I agree). If only people wouldn't feed and/or try to pet the animals, I couldn't agree with you more. As to bear, especially grizzly, it's human feeding (and garbage) which makes them lose their natural fear of us, the females with cubs being of particular concern. Applies to all animals, I agree: and a problem all over. As to the raven, that's a great picture, Crane! (and makes your point perfectly, I think

Troy rear sight, BCM Gunfighter charging handle, BCM BCG, Magpul XTM rail panels have been installed. It's a real live rifle. (Magpul rail panels, grip, stock, foregrip, magazine... I don't mean to be a fanboy, but their products were my best option in each category.)

Need a sling, forward sling attachment point and an Aimpoint Micro or Comp ML4, but I think the latter will have to wait a couple of months.


DSC_2559 by celluloidpropaganda, on Flickr

Next up, 14.5" pinned lightweight upper, lower with a lighter-weight stock (CTR or MOE).

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What's the doohickey mounted under the handgaurd?

Originally Posted by JustinW

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What's the doohickey mounted under the handgaurd?

It's an angled foregrip. Some like them better than the verticals.

Recommend me a carry pistol...I have a Glock 22 but I'm thinking of unloading it for a different gun. I can't conceal a full-size that easily and its highly unpractical for all but 3-4 months a year.

For reference, I'm 6'0, ~160 lbs and I prefer to wear well-fitting clothes; which is what has caused the concealed carry problems.

Caliber isn't overly important too me, although I'd prefer a 9/40/45.

Price range sub-$600 but its somewhat flexible.

Revolver or auto is fine, if I can spend enough trigger time to shoot a glock well I should be alright with anything.

Prefer not to shoot a sub-compact as I have fairly large paws but again, I'm open to anything. I'm relatively inexperienced (1 year) in the world of pistols as I've grown up a rifle and shotgun shooter.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Modern Day Adonis

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Recommend me a carry pistol...I have a Glock 22 but I'm thinking of unloading it for a different gun. I can't conceal a full-size that easily and its highly unpractical for all but 3-4 months a year.

For reference, I'm 6'0, ~160 lbs and I prefer to wear well-fitting clothes; which is what has caused the concealed carry problems.

Caliber isn't overly important too me, although I'd prefer a 9/40/45.

Price range sub-$600 but its somewhat flexible.

Revolver or auto is fine, if I can spend enough trigger time to shoot a glock well I should be alright with anything.

Prefer not to shoot a sub-compact as I have fairly large paws but again, I'm open to anything. I'm relatively inexperienced (1 year) in the world of pistols as I've grown up a rifle and shotgun shooter.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I'm a big believer that you should carry the highest caliber that you can carry. However, with you being inexperienced, I would recommend the 9mm. Smallest of the 3 listed, however, much cheaper to shoot and gain experience, then you can move up to the 45. The 9mm doesn't deserve the bad wrap it gets, I shoot it in my standard issue M9.

As far as easily concealed 9mm, I like Kahrs amd Keltec's. You would have to hold one to know if it is too small.

Easily concealed 45s are going to be your colt 1911 commander's and the like (kimber, springfield, etc) and maybe the H&K USP compact.

But if you are looking for pure fight stopping power, look at the 10mm Glock 29. Fairly concealable, but its a freight train in your hands. 9mm is around low 300 to 400, a well loaded .45vis around high 300 to 400 foot pounds, whereas the 10mm is in the 500 to 650 foot pound range. Hunters use it as a back up round to kill bears.

Originally Posted by Modern Day Adonis

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I have fairly large paws

Much like clothing, the first rule of finding the "right" gun for you is fit, fit, fit.

I'd find a local indoor range that rents handguns and head down there for an afternoon to try out various models to see if they fit your hands. Give a few models a "test drive" and see how you like them. Nothing turns a shooter off more than a gun that doesn't fit their hands.

Guys with larger hands are usually turned off by subcompacts (as you've already noted). If compacts are too large for you to conceal (e.g. a Glock 23, which is a sized-down version of your Glock 22) and subcompacts are too stubby in the grip (e.g. a Glock 27, which is a micro Glock 23) then I would consider another platform altogether. There are advantages to staying within the Glock .40 S&W platform as you can interchange your G22 magazines with a G23 or G27 but if the gun doesn't fit you then it's not worth the trouble.

Who knows, you may end up with one of the compact CZ clones, a smaller 1911 or even a Springfield XD compact. Point is, fitting a gun to a person is highly subjective and best done by the individual themselves.

Originally Posted by Ace Rimmer

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Much like clothing, the first rule of finding the "right" gun for you is fit, fit, fit.

I'd find a local indoor range that rents handguns and head down there for an afternoon to try out various models to see if they fit your hands. Give a few models a "test drive" and see how you like them. Nothing turns a shooter off more than a gun that doesn't fit their hands.

+ 1!

Maybe try the SA XD9 3.8, Ruger SR9C and Kahr 709 Slim.

I appreciate all the comments/recommendations; I'll get out and shoot some more pistols.