The Official Wine Thread

Two cases of ME today, including some bottles of late harvest SB. Didn't get in until 8, so not really digging in and seeing what I have.

So I made my third trip to the wine store in the last week. A few days ago I tried a 2007 Clos la Madeleine and it was decent. This time, I asked the owner of a shop to help me select something. He said that I should "make the purchase quick" since a wine tasting was about to end and the store would be flooded soon. He handed me a bottle of Chateau de Camensac 2007 for $37 out the door. I have a feeling that he picked up on my lack of knowledge and handed me something that wasn't moving just to clear inventory. Once I got home, due to this suspicion I looked for reviews of the wine and they are pretty dismal for the price I paid. What's more, it appears that 2007 is the "lost" vintage - how come there are no reviews of the 2007? http://www.vinopedia.com/wine/Chateau+Camensac This is like the third site that lists every vintage except the 2007. Is it that bad of a wine? Further, I'm starting to think I got massively ripped off. Most places have this online for significantly cheaper. http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/camensac/2007 Should I return it or give it a shot? If I return it, any recommendations in the $30-40 range for a replacement?

Anyone interested in these Riedel Vitis Syrah Glasses - I am buying a large quantity of glasses and will have some of these left over. I can sell the glasses at $35 for 2 glasses plus cost of shipping probably $45 total that is significantly less than what they sell for.

Originally Posted by computerpro3

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Once I got home, due to this suspicion I looked for reviews of the wine and they are pretty dismal for the price I paid. What's more, it appears that 2007 is the "lost" vintage - how come there are no reviews of the 2007?

return? No, I'd trust your own palate over any amateur critic on the internetz and it's still a bottle that you should drink and ponder. But find a new store? Yeah.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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IMO, you are exceedingly wrong. However, each to his own.

However, you nailed me! I am certainly a complete wine novice, so I am indeed easily fooled by these fancy numbers and things. Thanks for setting me straight.

Oh yes, a 2006 Stefania Syrah Eaglepoint Ranch for dinner. Paul's wines are exceedingly drinkable and pretty much all "drink young."

Who are you going to trust? Parker who didn't even begin writing until he was in his 30's or me who has been drinking top wines since he was 16 and whose family has had top wines in their cellars for at least 200 years?
And btw, the top writer on wine is Hugh Johnson. And if you're a newbie then pick up his pocket wine book.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...8-001b2166becc

Originally Posted by Petrus1

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Who are you going to trust? Parker who didn't even begin writing until he was in his 30's or me who has been drinking top wines since he was 16 and whose family has had top wines in their cellars for at least 200 years?
And btw, the top writer on wine is Hugh Johnson. And if you're a newbie then pick up his pocket wine book.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...8-001b2166becc

Originally Posted by Petrus1

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Who are you going to trust? Parker who didn't even begin writing until he was in his 30's or me who has been drinking top wines since he was 16 and whose family has had top wines in their cellars for at least 200 years?
And btw, the top writer on wine is Hugh Johnson. And if you're a newbie then pick up his pocket wine book.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...8-001b2166becc

Oh, well indeed, I shall trust you. Thank you very much for all your help and I one day hope to enjoy a wine that does not come in a box. I shall certainly ignore all other writers and only read Hugh Johnson. I mean, I almost picked up a book by a woman once! Can you imagine? Her name is also funny. Jancis.

Could you imagine if Hugh actually thought anything of her opinion and asked her to help write one of his books? What a thought!

Originally Posted by computerpro3

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So I made my third trip to the wine store in the last week. A few days ago I tried a 2007 Clos la Madeleine and it was decent.

This time, I asked the owner of a shop to help me select something. He said that I should "make the purchase quick" since a wine tasting was about to end and the store would be flooded soon. He handed me a bottle of Chateau de Camensac 2007 for $37 out the door. I have a feeling that he picked up on my lack of knowledge and handed me something that wasn't moving just to clear inventory.

Once I got home, due to this suspicion I looked for reviews of the wine and they are pretty dismal for the price I paid. What's more, it appears that 2007 is the "lost" vintage - how come there are no reviews of the 2007?

http://www.vinopedia.com/wine/Chateau+Camensac

This is like the third site that lists every vintage except the 2007. Is it that bad of a wine? Further, I'm starting to think I got massively ripped off. Most places have this online for significantly cheaper.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/camensac/2007

Should I return it or give it a shot?

If I return it, any recommendations in the $30-40 range for a replacement?

2007 Bordeaux has only just been released and few people would be drinking it yet, hence the lack of reviews unless they come from the published reviewers who sampled en primeur. It is not as good a vintage as 06, so there should be some relative bargains out there. That said, don't just trust the online reviews - keep sampling to see what you like.

For that price, and if you want 07 Bordeaux, I'd pick up Chx d'Armailhac or Clerc Milon if you like Pauillacs; and d'Angludet or du Tertre if you prefer Margaux. Ch Bolaire is just a bordeaux superior but it is drinking well now and should only be ~$25. Chasse-Spleen is a Moulis en Medoc and is quite accessible too. These wines are to my taste at that price level, but ymmv.

The very best thing, of course, is to keep trying and see what you like. Spend some time with your shop owner when he's not so rushed and tell him what you liked about Clos la Madeleine or other wines you've enjoyed and see if he can offer good advice. If the wines he suggests are not to your palate, just find another shop as gomey says...

Edit: here was a post I made a little while ago on some 07 Bordeaux: http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...postcount=7031

Wine tasting and a party, so, happy the LCBO had some decent releases.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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As you know, I'm willing to try Burgs, just not willing to randomly try them by the bottle.

....

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Just got two cases of Loring, including a case of 1/2 bottles, for those nights when I want just a little more. My Sea Smoke, which is about a case, isn't coming until December. Expecting another delivery today, two case of Stefania.

Oh, I forgot and did not record in my pending that I have two, two packs of Lewelling, 07. Did you see the WS and RP scores? 98 and 95.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Ah, yes. Wine delivery season

Today's delivery:

4 x 2008 JL Giguiere Pinot Noir Mossback
3 x 2008 DuMol RRV Pinot
3 x 2008 DuMol RRV Syrah

for the merits of the "expanding your palate" notion, how come you are willing to buy cases of other wines unseen, untasted, and un-assessed by anybody except for the winemaker (who, I'm assuming at the time orders are placed in advance, has no concrete idea how the wine will turn out), yet scoff at the apparent risk of single bottles of international wines that have been put through the rigors of importers, distributors, and critics? (I ask more for discussion purposes and not as a critique of buying habits. )

Originally Posted by gomestar

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.... for the merits of the "expanding your palate" notion, how come you are willing to buy cases of other wines unseen, untasted, and un-assessed by anybody except for the winemaker (who, I'm assuming at the time orders are placed in advance, has no concrete idea how the wine will turn out), yet scoff at the apparent risk of single bottles of international wines that have been put through the rigors of importers, distributors, and critics? (I ask more for discussion purposes and not as a critique of buying habits.

)
Because I know that the Left Coast will produce drinkable wines pretty much no matte what? And I can fine tune things by winemaker style?

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Oh, well indeed, I shall trust you. Thank you very much for all your help and I one day hope to enjoy a wine that does not come in a box. I shall certainly ignore all other writers and only read Hugh Johnson. I mean, I almost picked up a book by a woman once! Can you imagine? Her name is also funny. Jancis.

Could you imagine if Hugh actually thought anything of her opinion and asked her to help write one of his books? What a thought!
Yes, I know her and Serena Sutcliffe but these 2 females are rather the exception. Hugh is getting a bit long in the tooth and I believe Robinson is helping write his yearly pocket book now.
btw, wine actually comes in a bag that's inside the box and is really a good idea for cheaper wine since as it's used the bag collapses and keeps out the air.

Originally Posted by tattersall

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2007 Bordeaux has only just been released and few people would be drinking it yet, hence the lack of reviews unless they come from the published reviewers who sampled en primeur. It is not as good a vintage as 06, so there should be some relative bargains out there. That said, don't just trust the online reviews - keep sampling to see what you like.

For that price, and if you want 07 Bordeaux, I'd pick up Chx d'Armailhac or Clerc Milon if you like Pauillacs; and d'Angludet or du Tertre if you prefer Margaux. Ch Bolaire is just a bordeaux superior but it is drinking well now and should only be ~$25. Chasse-Spleen is a Moulis en Medoc and is quite accessible too. These wines are to my taste at that price level, but ymmv.

The very best thing, of course, is to keep trying and see what you like. Spend some time with your shop owner when he's not so rushed and tell him what you liked about Clos la Madeleine or other wines you've enjoyed and see if he can offer good advice. If the wines he suggests are not to your palate, just find another shop as gomey says...

Edit: here was a post I made a little while ago on some 07 Bordeaux: http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...postcount=7031

Camensac 2006 sells for $25 in NY. And if you're buying by mail I'd recommend Sherry Lehmann. Or you can try Morrell or Sokolin. Stay away from these new wine places because you don't know where the wine is stored. At least with Lehmann I know it's either stored underground in their cellars or in a temp controlled warehouse.

Originally Posted by indesertum

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oh right. he was in some sort of medical emergency, so couldnt make it. no wonder there were so many banfi wines.

does banfi the winery have to with banfi the restaurant in the hotel school?

oh and he also told us the story of how they acquired the 79 pichon comtesse.

apparently in 89 when they were building the hotel school? and starting the wine program, somebody came to him saying that a guy from the late 20s who attended for 1 semester donated a bunch of wines when he died because he owned a wine shop (one of the first to import large quantities like the bordeaux first growths after prohibition). he wanted mutkoski to appraise the wines to sell them. mutkoski asked if he could have them for the class. the guy said no. so then mutkoski asked for a consulting fee. and the guy said no way we're paying you a consulting fee and left. a few days before class starts he gets a call from the same guy saying that somebody tried some of the wines and they were bad and he was wondering if mutkoski wanted to take them off his hands. mutkoski figured even if they were over the hill it would be a good experience for the class.

so he sets off to rochester where all the wines are stored. he gets in the storage building, takes an elevator down two stories, and gets into the underground storage. he looks in and he sees a room as twice as big as the auditorium and realizes that it's all filled with wine. he thought maybe this is where all of rochester stores its wines. the guy he's with tells him that the wine went bad. so he walks up to a few palates? and finds chateau margaux, pichon comtesse, lafite rothschild, mouton rothschild, petrus, etc. all in pristine condition and in several vintages like 59, 57, etc. the guy asks him how much of it he wants and mutkoski says all of it. the guy retorts saying that the wine is bad, but mutkoski eventually convinces him to ship everything back to the school.

a lot of the bottles were so old they needed to be corked and foiled. so he calls and gets corks and foils from every chateau except pichon comtesse. he contacts pichon comtesse and may de lencquesaing, who figures its a hoax, refuses. a burgundy distributor he knew tells mutkoski that he's actually eating with her in nyc in a few days and mutkoski tells him to bring her two bottles of 59 margaux newly corked and sealed. next day he gets a fax from comtesse saying that he's getting his corks and foils.


apparently the pichon we had was the last of the wines from that stock and no more from now on

i was planning on sneaking in for the bordeaux class for a tasting, but i guess not.

The pichon comtesse is the 2nd wine of Pichon Lalande.
And in '83 you can be sure that a Ch Margaux '59 that had been stored underground would not be bad at 24 years old. I just drank one of my Margaux 1979 and it's still perfect at 31 years old.
My cellar stays between 50-60F naturally so the storage is perfect but some of the California wines were really past their prime like the Heitz '78 and Jordan '76. IMO these should be drank at 10-15 years old.
The German whites from '76 are still perfect (mostly auslese) although one Eitelsbacher '75 spatlese was still very good when I drank it.The d'Yquem and ports will outlive me.

Originally Posted by Petrus1

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The pichon comtesse is the 2nd wine of Pichon Lalande. And in '83 you can be sure that a Ch Margaux '59 that had been stored underground would not be bad at 24 years old. I just drank one of my Margaux 1979 and it's still perfect at 31 years old. My cellar stays between 50-60F naturally so the storage is perfect but some of the California wines were really past their prime like the Heitz '78 and Jordan '76. IMO these should be drank at 10-15 years old. The German whites from '76 are still perfect (mostly auslese) although one Eitelsbacher '75 spatlese was still very good when I drank it.The d'Yquem and ports will outlive me.
i didnt want to wrote the whole name multiple times, but it was the pichon longueville comtesse de lalande. did not know pichon comtesse was a separate 2nd wine also i honestly dont like port. maybe i havent had good ones so far, but they're like sipping really strong condensed fruit juice