Serious question that's going to make you all angry.

Sir Gatsby. You have demeaned me and I demand satisfaction!





Seriously for me it is value and quality. I have some cheap shoes. The cloth shoelace cut through the leather in less than 10 days. The linings in my jackets are not falling out or ripping apart after six months, and the material of my pants has not failed me after one wash. My belts are not made of cardboard, and my clothes keep their color (and do not show the original pattern of the cloth that was re-dyed -- think stripes at a 27 degree angle that appeared after the first wash. Target -- 1994.)

Yes, all these things have happened when I found a "deal" in the department store.

In addition, those things that I buy fit me. The pants don't have pleats that billow in the breeze. My shirts cannot double as a 3-man tent. I am able to purchase shoes that have less than 1-2 inches of room forward of the toe.

So I see value in spending more. Yes, I am sure you can find golden nuggets out there amongst discount brands. But I have neither the time, want, or money to look for them. It is cheaper for me just to buy quality.

There's large sums and there's large sums...if you think $200.00 is a large sum for a pair of shoes your basic premise has, admittedly, some validity.

But regardless of price, a leather shoe with a solid leather insole, made with techniques that insure the integrity of the shoe through hard use and multiple rebuilds, is going to be far and away more comfortable than a shoe made of plastic, canvas and paper.

If nothing else the insole will begin to mould to the bottom of your foot...creating what we call a "footbed"...and the upper will accommodate the deviations of your foot from a standard last. This "break-in" usually results in a shoe that is "individualized" and a fit that cannot be duplicated in new or cheaper shoes.

what's that worth.

Using shoes as an example, once you reach the level of full-grain leather uppers, welt construction, leather-soled shoes, made by fairly compensated workers in developed nations, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In terms of intrinsic value, there is little difference between a $250 shoe and a $1250 shoe.

I don't understand why people on SF have such a hard time saying "I like nice ****, and am willing to pay a lot more for a slightly better product". It's almost as if they need to convince themselves that they're getting more value to make their spending seem less frivolous.

I like nice ****, and am willing to pay a lot more for a slightly better product.

EZ

Originally Posted by gladhands

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Using shoes as an example, once you reach the level of full-grain leather uppers, welt construction, leather-soled shoes, made by fairly compensated workers in developed nations, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In terms of intrinsic value, there is little difference between a $250 shoe and a $1250 shoe. I don't understand why people on SF have such a hard time saying "I like nice ****, and am willing to pay a lot more for a slightly better product". It's almost as if they need to convince themselves that they're getting more value to make their spending seem less frivolous.
all of this, 100% if people just were more honest instead of posting things like "save up for vass, it's worth it!!!" these threads wouldn't exist

I like nice ****, and I'm willing to do a lot more work to find slightly nicer products sold at deep discounts.

^ That's actually my reality too.

EZ

Originally Posted by gladhands

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Using shoes as an example, once you reach the level of full-grain leather uppers, welt construction, leather-soled shoes, made by fairly compensated workers in developed nations, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In terms of intrinsic value, there is little difference between a $250 shoe and a $1250 shoe.
Well, maybe I'm just particular but I suspect that's not entirely true. There is, in my mind and in my experience, a significant and critical difference between a Goodyear welted shoe and and a hand welted shoe. There is a significant and critical difference between a shoe made with a solid vegetable tanned leather insole and one made with a fiberboard or leatherboard insole covered by a leather sockliner. There is a significant and critical difference between a bespoke shoe made by an experienced and engaged maker and and RTW. There is a significant and critical difference between shoe uppers stitched together at 10 to the inch and one that is stitched at 14 or 16 to the inch. There is a significant difference between a shoe that is assembled exposing raw edges and one that has folded edges. Und so weiter. Having said that, some some ago I pointed out that there was little difference between a shoe costing $100.00 and one costing less than say, $500.00. The foundational techniques are invariably the same, the materials used differ in name only--corrected leather is, after all still leather...as is leatherboard.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that a $1400 pair of Lobbs isn't demonstrably better than a $200 pair of AEs. I'm just saying it isn't 7-times better.

Originally Posted by Jay Gatsby

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If I drop a large sum of dough on a pair of nice shoes, but end up having to pay for new soles and other upkeep every couple of years or so, and the cost of this maintenance is equal to or greater than the cost to buy a cheap pair of shoes every six months, than what is the point of buying the more expensive shoes?

What about watches? If having my watch serviced every once in awhile costs the same as buying a new Seiko in the same duration of time, what's the point of having the more expensive watch?
If you actually have to ask such a question to know the answer ... you don't really deserve the answer.

Some people like to spend money and know they are getting quality made items. No one is going to come up with some mathematical formula or graph to show "diminishing returns" and "ROI" on shoes or a watch. If you want to go buy Wal-Mart shoes, I couldn't care less. Go buy your watch at Target, if it helps you sleep better at night. That's what it all boils down to.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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the expensive shoes and expensive watches look better.

+1

But ... speaking of dropping things on shoes. I spilled one drop of red wine -- landed dead center -- onto the vamp of a pair of split-toe bluchers. This presents a dilemma, do I toss them ... or symmetrically spill a drop onto the other of the pair ... and pretend they are Paul Jheeta Bespoke?

Originally Posted by RogerC

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Bring it down to calculation. In European money:
1 pair of C&J: €500
cost per resoling: €65 (at least, at my cobbler)
over 15 years, assuming you resole every three years: €825

1 pair of standard department shoes: €100
Lifetime: 1 year
over 15 years: €1500

And this is before we start talking about the environment, animal health & welfare (the leather, y'know), etc.

I suggest that your calculations would be more accuate if you assume:

1 pair of standard depatment shoes: €100
Lifetime: Three years.
over 15 years: €500

This gives a savings of €325.

You're assuming people pay more for things simply to save money over the long term. There's no question you'd save a fortune by foregoing bespoke and buying suits from Target your whole life, simply replacing them as they wear out.